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year of CAT 25

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 08:59:47

Regarding your hull number "CTYK0042M77"
CTY is the Manufacturer ID Number, in this case Catalina Yachts
I believe the "K" refers to the C25 model and the 0042 does refer to hull serial number "42"
M refers to manufacturing date.
77 is the year of manufacture, "1977"
There should be another letter that follows the 77 that refers to which month the vessel was built. You are lacking that letter. If you have no record of it you could email Kent Nelson at Catalina yachts and I am sure he can tell you the HIN that was assigned to hull number 42. He was very helpful to me when I went through a similar exercise. <Kent@catalinayachts.com> You may need to have the correct HIN to secure insurance.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 09:12:10

My 79 has the motor on port, I like it there just fine. Skipper Ddan, In wouldn't go through all the trouble of moving it, I think it would work well on either side. I think I've detected a slight list to port, but it doesn't bother me as my beer cooler sits on port as well.

As far as a new main, I picked one up for $600 for a tall rig.

Do you have all the drawers and cushions. The cushions can be very expensive.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 10:30:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kim Luckner
 It's hard to imagine a 2000 lb "Plumb Bob" keel being influenced by 100 to 150 lbs. I'm guessing the CG of the keel is a few feet below the waterline and the motor/water tank just a foot or so above. I too have put a level on the companionway combing and found it spot on.
By the way my motor mount is on the port side. I have a Honda 8 hp and adjust the steering friction tiller lock to cancel out most torque and off-center thrust.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's why it's a shame that we lost so much of our archived discussions. You wouldn't have to take my word for the existence of the imbalance. You could read the comments of other members who have complained about it through the years and posted photos of it. I'm just passing along information that some members might find useful or interesting. Members are free to use it or disregard it as they wish, but, when Dan asked whether it would be better to mount the motor on the port or starboard side, that raised the subject of the imbalance, and he wanted the best, most complete answer we could give him. When the information is deleted from our archives, the only institutional memory left is whatever lingers in our brains.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 11:33:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 Regarding your hull number "CTYK0042M77"
CTY is the Manufacturer ID Number, in this case Catalina Yachts
I believe the "K" refers to the C25 model and the 0042 does refer to hull serial number "42"
M refers to manufacturing date.
77 is the year of manufacture, "1977"
There should be another letter that follows the 77 that refers to which month the vessel was built. You are lacking that letter. If you have no record of it you could email Kent Nelson at Catalina yachts and I am sure he can tell you the HIN that was assigned to hull number 42. He was very helpful to me when I went through a similar exercise. <Kent@catalinayachts.com> You may need to have the correct HIN to secure insurance.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Thanks Smitty for the contact information . I sent an e-mail to Kent as an introduction, and was given some drawings, and information. Seems that kent is a very responsive and helpful guy. Props to Catalina and Kent for the responsiveness. ...now back to your regularly scheeduled program.......

Edited by - Ape-X on 01/05/2012 11:34:08

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 12:46:15

As electric boat motors go, this one interested me the most. The downsides were initial cost and having to have 4 batteries on board (lots of weight):
http://www.youtube.com/user/Keveeee2000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZDfm9IOIpI&feature=BFa&list=UUIX1zPtOD3PzcG7HJLiP8Rw&lf=plcp

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/05/2012 12:50:07

Skipper Ddan
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 15:05:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 As electric boat motors go, this one interested me the most. The downsides were initial cost and having to have 4 batteries on board (lots of weight):
http://www.youtube.com/user/Keveeee2000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZDfm9IOIpI&feature=BFa&list=UUIX1zPtOD3PzcG7HJLiP8Rw&lf=plcp
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There website no longer looks to be there.

Dan

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 15:53:31

I had a hard time trying to find it, but the You Tube videos are still up. As neat as it looked, the real problem in my book was cost. The larger model they offered, more suitable for the C-25, would have been close to $5k with batteries. Great concept, but too much for my wallet. Parson markets an interesting electric outboard, but still too expensive compared to a gas o/b.
Another sailing site indicates they have had service issues and were given a very poor rating by the BBB. Oh well!

Another nail in their coffin:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/25789-re-e-power-7.html

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/05/2012 17:46:01

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 18:16:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 In about 1980, Catalina relocated the motor mount to the starboard side after they learned that the boat lists slightly, but noticeably, to port when in it's slip.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I too have the early model C25 with the motor mounted port side to and it does not list. Yes, some have said they have a list, but that doesn't mean they all do.

Personally, I have a hard time believing my little 80lb outboard, mounted a foot or so from centerline, has much affect on port/starboard trim.

For arguments sake, lets say half the boats made listed to port and moving the outboard indeed affects the trim enough to correct for X amount of degrees of list. If so, wouldn't moving the outboard cause the 50 percent of the boats without a list to now list to starboard?

Edited by - on

Skipper Ddan
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 18:55:18

I do not think it has anything to do with the motor. They list to port because there is too much beer in the cooler and not enough water in the tank. :-)

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 19:34:10

I agree with Don--the tiny lever-arm from the centerline to the outboard, geometrically reduced by the distance aft of the center of gravity of the boat where the keel ballast is concentrated, is not likely to have a measurable effect on trim. Put the outboard where you want it.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 08:18:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 I do not think it has anything to do with the motor. They list to port because there is too much beer in the cooler and not enough water in the tank. :-)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> This guy is gonna fit right in with this group.

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cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 08:23:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 I don't pretend to know what thoughts were actually going through Frank Butler's mind when he decided to relocate the motor mount...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I was reporting what Bill Holcomb, who as you know was a Catalina dealer, has said several times he learned from Catalina. You can look up his explanation [url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=3085"]here[/url] and then have it out with Bill, not me.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This has been an interesting thread to follow, but finally I thought I would jump in. Confetti is hull #1 (1976), and I was fortunate to sail on her at Anacapa Yacht Club while Frank was doing "sail offs" between her and hull #2 to try different configurations. A friend of mine bought hull#3, which was the first one to come off the assembly line as a test for how a production boat would come out. All of this is straight from Frank's mouth to my ears....

My recollection of the discussions on why the motor was moved to starboard was that the change to the fuel tank locker made it really difficult to access the port side transom for mounting the motor mount, etc. without violating the water (and gas and gas fumes) tightness of the volume. The list to port was recognized back then, but it did not seem to bother anyone. The move to starboard did have a secondary effect of distribuing weight better, since almost everything on Confetti is on the port side except for the batteries. You would think it would help while sailing on port tack, but over the the last 35 years I have had the boat it seems she sails a bit better on starboard tack? (or maybe its because I am a bit more bold on starboard tack??? <grin>).

Bottom line IMHO is that there is really no "right or wrong" side for the motor, and the tiny list to port on early boats was not a big topic of discussion, and would not have been a big driver for changing things if it took any special effort on Butler's part. The tiller on my 9.9 OMC is on its port side, and I actually LIKE the motor's tiller being on the "outside" of the motor since its easier for me to reach it, but that is probably not the case for everyone.

Getting back to an early question in this thread, I think Steve Milby summed up the comparison of the Triton and C-25 the best. And I really liked the recommended list of modifications in an earlier note. Those are time tested changes that will help prevent some bad experiences! I have sailed a lot on Tritons, and really wanted one, but got too good a deal on a C-27 many years ago. Then moved to my C-25 when it became available. We raced and cruised all up and down the S. California coast, and have been in some pretty bad weather and heavy seas with her. We are planning to take her down to the keys, but a C-25 is not and was not intended to be an offshore cruising boat (I have been thru a hurricane down off of Cabo San Lucas many many years ago on a larger boat while racing, and the power of the sea is not something easily described). However, I would not trade her for anything.

Cheers!!

Chuck

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 10:48:00

Above is another arguement for preserving the knowledge, history deposited here.

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Skipper Ddan
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 11:38:42

I am making my way aft cleaning up the 25. It is really not too bad. I am to the main cabin. It seems to me that there is a lot more room in this boat than the Triton. It is really situated well for single occupancy, which is how I had the Triton set up. I can almost stand up in the 25. I will post some pictures as I get the cabin cleaned. The problem I see so far is that I will get nothing for my Triton and if I sell the 25 I should be looking at $5,000.00 to $7,000.00.

Dan

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 13:28:12

Dan,
How did you arrive at that number? I'd like to manage your expectations a little. I just purchased my 1984 C-25 in October. Granted, I'm in the northeast, and October is prime time to be a buyer, but the market was soft. Check SailNet and other boards, too, and you'll see the same comment - there aren't a lot of buyers out there right now. Maybe things will pick up in the Spring, who knows? But most boats, unless they are in pristine condition, are sitting on the market for at least several months. I started looking back in April of 2010, and I watched MANY Craigslist ads simply expire because the boats didn't sell. In fact, I just got an E-mail yesterday from a guy to whom I'd made an offer back in August that was $2000 less than his asking price, and the E-mail asked if I was still interested in his boat. For reference, none of the boats that I looked at were LISTED at over $4000. [URL="http://s1002.photobucket.com/albums/af147/jgoepel/New%20to%20us%20Boat%20-%201984%20Catalina%2025%20Swing%20Keel/"]If you're interested, you can see pictures of the boat by clicking here, for reference to its condition.[/URL] Now, I DO think I got a very good deal on my boat, but even if I paid 50% of it's fair market value, I'd still be significantly under the prices you mentioned, and for a boat that's 7 years newer.

I would suspect that you'd get a better price for the Triton, assuming it's in comparable shape to the C25. But I'm still new to the game so maybe I'm way off base. And, of course, the information above is only one person's experience, and YMMV.

Edited by - JimGo on 01/06/2012 13:32:20

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 13:57:11

Sellers put prices on their boats thinking that their boat is the best thing to sail the 7 seas... Bottom line is that its only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 14:18:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 I am making my way aft cleaning up the 25. It is really not too bad. I am to the main cabin. It seems to me that there is a lot more room in this boat than the Triton. It is really situated well for single occupancy, which is how I had the Triton set up. I can almost stand up in the 25. I will post some pictures as I get the cabin cleaned. The problem I see so far is that I will get nothing for my Triton and if I sell the 25 I should be looking at $5,000.00 to $7,000.00.

Dan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Dan, I too think that figure is optimistic. I don't know what you have in terms of sails condition, motor condition, interior components, plumbing, etc., but, those are all high dollar items. You could easily find yourself spending as much or more than you can get out of the boat. Cleaning, repairing(minor) and so on only cost your labor and only you can say what that's worth. I think you're being overly optimist particularly if the hul and deck are indeed in need of re-painting. I think most here would agree that a painted hull and deck (that needs or will need re-painting) are not worth the price of one with gelcoat in even fair condition.

I'm looking forward to seeing the "after" photos when you're done cleaning her.

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 14:54:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 In about 1980, Catalina relocated the motor mount to the starboard side after they learned that the boat lists slightly, but noticeably, to port when in it's slip.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I too have the early model C25 with the motor mounted port side to and it does not list. Yes, some have said they have a list, but that doesn't mean they all do.

Personally, I have a hard time believing my little 80lb outboard, mounted a foot or so from centerline, has much affect on port/starboard trim.

For arguments sake, lets say half the boats made listed to port and moving the outboard indeed affects the trim enough to correct for X amount of degrees of list. If so, wouldn't moving the outboard cause the 50 percent of the boats without a list to now list to starboard?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I also have a 79 with a port mount and no list

Edited by - on

Skipper Ddan
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 14:56:39

I was figuring the motor was worth $2000.00, he said he paid $3,000.00 two years ago, 9.9 Yamaha four stroke. I figured the trailer set up for a CAT 25 Deep keel was worth $2,000.00. A couple of nice sails (Spinnaker) nice mast and good boom, rudder is OK another $1,000.00. It has all the interior cushions stored so they are in good shape, someone on this board said that If I have to replace them it would be $1,000.00 so I should be able to sell them for around $500.00. If I take the time to repaint the interior and top, replace a few wood pieces it would be a nice looking boat.

Dan

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 17:11:58

Dan: You're saying that somebody painted the decks and interior? The original decks were (generally) two-tone gelcoat. Unless you definitely see paint on that, or see glass fibers showing through, I'd try hard to restore the gelcoat. Inside, where the sun doesn't shine, I can't imagine why somebody would've painted the gelcoat, but there have been many things I couldn't have imagined... If it isn't painted, a little cleaner-polish should be able to shine it up. My guess is it'll look much more like new than a coat of paint will.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 17:49:50

The interior was never originally painted. If I went aboard with the thought of buying a C25 and saw a painted interior, I'd run, not walk away from that boat. It isn't a plus. Wouldn't want the future maintenance issues with paint. Look real hard at the deck and confirm that you're not just looking at chalky gelcoat. Again, a painted deck is not a plus. Particularly a painted deck that isn't very well done.

I was the guy that posted some prices earlier. A brand new, balanced rudder will be between $750 and $1,000. One that is "OK" isn't worth nearly that. The trailer may be worth $2k but that really depends on condition. If it's the same age of the boat, I'd be skeptical.

I hope you're right about the price point but, I'm guessing you're a little optimistic. I'm not try to pop your balloon here. Just trying to provide some perspective.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 18:06:49

Strongly recommend against painting over any gel coat Dan. Gel coat is much more durable than paint. If you paint you will very likely be chasing scratches the rest of the time you own the boat.

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Skipper Ddan
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 18:18:34

Your probably right, it is not worth the trouble. The gelcoat is beyond repair. Most likely after I looked at the trailer I can modify it to fit the Triton. I can also maybe use the Spinnaker on the Triton also. I am betting just cleaning it up and making it sail, it will sell next spring for $2,500.00 or so with some little gas trolling motor.

Dan

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 21:42:28

You should check the rated capacity for the trailer before using it for the Triton. At about 7-8,000 lb displacement, the Triton might be too much for it. Even with only the weight of a C25, it can be challenging to stop the whole rig, especially on wet pavement or downhill, or both.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2012 : 09:20:40

Even just checking the label on the trailer may not be enough. The Triton will require two 5k axles, or a 3rd 3,500 lb axle, not just two 3,500 lb axles. If the trailer tires are on 5-lug rims, your axles are most likely rated for 3,500 lbs each. The trailer itself will use up 1,000-1,500 lbs, leaving only about 5,500 for the boat, etc. My trailer's label shows a GVWR of 9,990 lbs, but it has two 3,500 lb axles.

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