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year of CAT 25

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 16:35:55

Ya, they made them with that hole in the transom and a well inside for mounting the outboard. The rudder is inboard, forward of the outboard. I see mostly inboard models here along the coast.

Edited by - on

Skipper Ddan
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 17:03:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I'd rather do it in a C-25 FK than a Cal 20! The C-27 is considerably stouter--more like the Triton, and most have inboards (better for ocean cruising).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just the opposite. Outboard for ocean cruising inboard for weekenders. The thinking here is; on an ocean voyage you need as much room as you can get down below and use the engine very little. Hence keep it out of the way. On a lake you need it more often because you are going in and out of port more often. Rarely need more room for day sailing. This is true only for real sailors that sail rather than motor sailors.

Dan

Edited by - on

Skipper Ddan
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 17:23:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 It looks like you have more of a project than a boat.

Assuming that the boat is structurally sound,... Remember that a seaworthy, ready-to-sail Catalina 25 can be had for around $5,000 - $7,500.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is the reason I am asking.

The boat is reasonable sound and with good gelcoat. It just came out of the water from sitting for a few years. the paint however is a little chalky on top and could use a new top coat. The interior after being cleaned up would pass as an older boat in good health but not newly refurbished. It would need a new paint job on the interior to help get the wife on board, but a cleaning would make a big difference.
The standing rigging is fine, but the running needs to be replaced. Other than the main the sails are in good condition. Winches are there and everything needs to be re-bedded. I have to relocate the motor and ladder to the correct place. I think the hull paint can be saved and only paint the top side. Still a lot of work right there.

Dan

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 19:00:11

The hull and deck ore not painted at the factory. Ya might wanna look underneath it.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 19:23:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 I have to relocate the motor and ladder to the correct place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are they on the bow?

Edited by - on

Skipper Ddan
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 19:58:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 I have to relocate the motor and ladder to the correct place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are they on the bow?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
They are on the wrong side

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 19:59:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 . . . I have no idea why you would want to raise the boom unless you live somewhere the wind is 20 plus knots all the time . . . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Peter, FWIW, when we had new sails made last year we had 1' lopped off the bottom to raise the boom (matches height of standard rig) - so we could sail with the bimini up.

All we need now is a bimini!

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 20:07:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 I have to relocate the motor and ladder to the correct place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are they on the bow?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
They are on the wrong side
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Actually, the motor brackets were factory mounted on the port side on the 1977 model year.

Edited by - OJ on 01/03/2012 20:21:35

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 20:20:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 . . . the paint however is a little chalky on top and could use a new top coat . . . It would need a new paint job on the interior . . . <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Most of us here do not recommend applying paint to gel coat - only as a last resort.

Here's what can be done with tired (chalky) gel coat:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/52772-tips-compound-polish-wax.html

Even a Catalina 25:

Edited by - OJ on 01/03/2012 20:27:27

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 06:30:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Actually, the motor brackets were factory mounted on the port side on the 1977 model year.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Same with the 1978 models.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 09:24:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 I have to relocate the motor and ladder to the correct place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are they on the bow?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
They are on the wrong side
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Actually, the motor brackets were factory mounted on the port side on the 1977 model year.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That doesn't mean he has to leave it there. While he's doing so much work on it and upgrading it, it is reasonable to relocate the motor mount so that it is more efficient. Personally, I'm not sure the benefits gained by relocating the motor mount justify the time and effort required to do it, but it's his boat and his choice.

Edited by - on

Skipper Ddan
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 09:49:59

[/quote]Actually, the motor brackets were factory mounted on the port side on the 1977 model year.
[/quote]That doesn't mean he has to leave it there. While he's doing so much work on it and upgrading it, it is reasonable to relocate the motor mount so that it is more efficient. Personally, I'm not sure the benefits gained by relocating the motor mount justify the time and effort required to do it, but it's his boat and his choice.
[/quote]

I am just learning here, Is the motor better off on the starboard rather than port? I was only aware that it was supposed to go on the starboard side. I am going to switch it out to a smaller self contained motor at any rate so it probably will not matter.

Dan

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 10:10:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan

I am just learning here, Is the motor better off on the starboard rather than port? I was only aware that it was supposed to go on the starboard side. I am going to switch it out to a smaller self contained motor at any rate so it probably will not matter.

Dan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm not sure I know the answer to your question exactly but, since the tiller for the outboard is typically to port, (BIG assumption there) it may make sense to mount the motor to starboard to make access to the tiller easier. It also makes the range of the tiller wider. For my motor, it's a trade-off. The gear shift is on the starboard side and the motor is to starboard as well making it a pain to get to in a hurry. Unfortunately for the 250, there isn't a choice to experiment because of the open transom to port.

In any case, this would be pretty low on the "to do" list.

Edited by - John Russell on 01/04/2012 10:11:25

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 10:21:02

In about 1980, Catalina relocated the motor mount to the starboard side after they learned that the boat lists slightly, but noticeably, to port when in it's slip. Moving the motor to the starboard side cures the list. Alternatively, you can improve the boat's balance by filling the starboard side water tank, or stowing a little more weight to starboard, or adding a second battery, etc. I'm sure the slight list affects the boat's sailing performance slightly, but for most casual sailors, it isn't enough to really matter. Having raced against the earlier models, I can't say I have ever seen a significant difference in speed or pointing that is attributable to the imbalance. If an earlier boat is well-sailed, it seems to be as competitive as a later model.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/04/2012 10:25:25

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 10:49:24

Maybe Steve is right about correcting a port list but as I understood the reason for the motor mount being moved to the starboard side was the addition of the self contained fuel locker. When they added the fuel locker there wasn't any way to bolt the motor mount on the port side.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 11:55:51

We have discussed the relocation of the motor mount many times, complete with photos of a pre-1980 boat listing to port in its slip, but I just did a search, and apparently all that has disappeared from the archives. It's a shame that we have lost so many of our forum discussions, because those discussions documented the history of the Association, the history of the C25, and provided the answers to many of the questions that arise here again and again. Not being a computer expert, I can only guess that we lose our accumulated archives whenever we change our server. If we change servers in the future, I hope we can take our archives with us. It's a shame to lose that accumulated knowledge.

Nevertheless, if you could see a photo of a pre-1980 boat listing to port, it would be obvious that the weight of the motor was moved to starboard to cure that list. The enclosed fuel locker happened at about the same time, but it's hard to imagine that the curing of the list wasn't the primary motivation for moving the motor. If the motor is on the port side, the boat will list to port. If it's mounted on the starboard side, the boat rides level.

There isn't much room to work on that area of the transom, but many of us added swim ladders to the port side. It helps to be a contortionist, but it can be done, and the factory has the added advantage that they could install the motor mount, if necessary, before installing the deck.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/04/2012 12:01:09

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 13:24:25

Based on the history according to Bill Holcomb, the mount was moved to starboard the year they changed the cockpit mold to include the fuel locker ('83?). The locker got in the way of attaching the bracket inside the transom. It was just a production thing.

I preferred the outboard on starboard because that put its tiller-handle toward the center rather than toward the outside of the boat. Regarding balance, the water tank (which holds roughly 160 lbs.) is about twice as far from the centerline as a 100 lb. outboard, and therefore will have about three times the effect. I couldn't see an appreciable difference with my big Honda on or off the boat. An empty or full water tank was noticeable.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 14:23:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Based on the history according to Bill Holcomb, the mount was moved to starboard the year they changed the cockpit mold to include the fuel locker ('83?). The locker got in the way of attaching the bracket inside the transom. It was just a production thing.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I ordered my boat new in 1980, and took delivery of it in 1981, and it had the enclosed fuel locker and the motor mount on starboard, so I know your date is off by 2 years. I don't pretend to know what thoughts were actually going through Frank Butler's mind when he decided to relocate the motor mount to starboard, but through the years, many owners of the old boats have complained about the list to port, and have asked whether they should move the bracket. Since the list was pronounced, and since many owners were probably complaining about it to the factory back at that time, before this forum existed, I doubt that Frank Butler was proud of the fact that his C25s all listed to port, and he probably wanted to fix it before prospective buyers learned that his boats listed to port. A built-in list wouldn't be a strong selling point.

Maybe you're right and he didn't care that his boats listed to port, but I doubt it.

Regardless of the reason for the change, the fact remains that Dan's boat will almost certainly list to port unless he relocates his motor mount to starboard, but it probably won't drastically affect the performance of the boat, and whether he changes it is his choice.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 17:15:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 . . . I am just learning here, Is the motor better off on the starboard rather than port? I was only aware that it was supposed to go on the starboard side. I am going to switch it out to a smaller self contained motor at any rate so it probably will not matter . . .

Dan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Permission granted Dan!

I concur with Steve Milby above about the early models listing to port - hence Catalina moved the motor to starboard.

Edited by - OJ on 01/04/2012 17:20:14

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 17:29:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 [quote]Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 . . . my boat new in 1980 . . . it had the enclosed fuel locker . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Design changes resulted in an insteresting combination of old and new. My '81 had the enclosed fuel locker but the old liner in the bottom of the lazarette (aft) that had the recessed lip for stowing the tank.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 17:33:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 I ordered my boat new in 1980, and took delivery of it in 1981, and it had the enclosed fuel locker and the motor mount on starboard, so I know your date is off by 2 years. I don't pretend to know what thoughts were actually going through Frank Butler's mind when he decided to relocate the motor mount...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I admitted I didn't know the year (except that it was before 1985)... and I was reporting what Bill Holcomb, who as you know was a Catalina dealer, has said several times he learned from Catalina. You can look up his explanation [url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=3085"]here[/url] and then have it out with Bill, not me.

That was just one of several threads where some people here complained about a list to starboard, suspecting it was due to the combination of water, batteries, and outboard on the same side. I put a carpenter's level on my '85 SR/FK Dinette with a heavy Honda on starboard, one battery, and a mostly full water tank, and it was dead-level. So I don't know... I do know the dinette table was HEAVY!

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2012 : 17:35:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 . . . and apparently all that has disappeared from the archives. It's a shame that we have lost so many of our forum discussions . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Even my old discussion about losing old discussions has disappreared!

Edited by - on

Kim Luckner
1st Mate

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USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 08:14:51

It's hard to imagine a 2000 lb "Plumb Bob" keel being influenced by 100 to 150 lbs. I'm guessing the CG of the keel is a few feet below the waterline and the motor/water tank just a foot or so above. I too have put a level on the companionway combing and found it spot on.
By the way my motor mount is on the port side. I have a Honda 8 hp and adjust the steering friction tiller lock to cancel out most torque and off-center thrust.

Edited by - on

Skipper Ddan
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 08:30:12

I'm thinking of going electric and mounting a pod right on the bottom between the keel and rudder. I am going electric on the Triton but with an ETec motor hooked to the original prop. This looks like an ideal test bed for the pod as there is a nice flat spot with plenty of room. The Triton is a full keel so no such luck.

Dan

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 08:48:08

Edited by - pastmember on 01/05/2012 08:49:25

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