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year of CAT 25

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Skipper Ddan
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Initially Posted - 01/02/2012 : 15:32:12

I have a Cat 25 that I just got but do not have the paperwork for yet. The serial number is 42, any idea what year that would be? I am trying to figure out to clean it up and sell it, or part it out. This is a full keel model with table that has a post. Pop top also. Not sure if it is a tall rig or not. I do have a spinnaker for it.

Dan

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Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 01/02/2012 : 15:50:20

Welcome to the forum, Dan!

If the hull number is 42, then the boat would probably be a 1977 model.

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dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/02/2012 : 16:57:29

Welcome to the forum, Dan. Be sure to join the Association, money very well spent. You'll find a wealth of information here, and a lot of guys who want to help you get the most out of your boat. Why not fix it up and sail it i nstead of sell it?
you said the table has a post. Are the cushions around the table in an "L" shape with a long straight bench on the other side of the boat? If so, you have the L-dinette version. If you have 2 straight benches running lengthwise in the main cabin, you have the traditional interior.
What condition is the boat in? Assuming you have the main sail, measure the length on the long side with the sail slugs, not the side with the batten pockets. If it is approx. 24.5 ft. then you have a standard rig. If it is more like 27.5 ft. then you have a tall rig. If the mast is down, measure the mast: std 28 ft., tall 30 ft.
BTW, the guy who owns hull #1 is still actively sailing it, so yours is not too old!

Edited by - dmpilc on 01/02/2012 16:59:07

Skipper Ddan
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Response Posted - 01/02/2012 : 18:35:50

I also have a Triton 28' I want to figure out which one I will like the best. The problem is I do not want to put a lot of money in this boat just to find out I will never get it back out. If it sails better than my Triton I would sell the Triton. Hard to believe it will sail better than the Triton though. Problem with the Triton is I do not have a trailer for it so it has to stay in the water.

Dan

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 01/02/2012 : 21:23:04

Where do you sail, and what is the usual wind strength, and do you like to race or cruise or both?

The C25 and Triton 28 are very different boats, but each is a fine boat in it's own way.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 08:27:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Where do you sail...?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I put "Portage Des Sioux, MO" into Google Earth and saw a long line of sailboats in a marina just off the Big Muddy north of St. Louis. You there, Dan?? If so, what's the prevailing current speed? Just curious... As for the "serial number", do you have the full hull ID? (It's usually scratched into the gelcoat just below the rubrail on the starboard side of the transom, starting with CTY...)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/03/2012 08:33:11

Skipper Ddan
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 09:21:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Where do you sail...?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I put "Portage Des Sioux, MO" into Google Earth and saw a long line of sailboats in a marina just off the Big Muddy north of St. Louis. You there, Dan??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, Look for "My River Home" There are actually four marinas there. river speed was 3 to 4 I believe. I traveled down the Mississippi in the Triton at 7 knots I think it was with a 9.9 just running at a low RPM. I looked fro the serial number on the transom yesterday but did not see one. I will look again.

To the other poster I was headed around the world on the Triton when I met someone from Peru and headed over there for almost a year, then brought her back. Now the Triton is a little much, but I am afraid the CAT will not be strong enough if I venture to the Keys. Around the world will have to wait again. :-( I do like being able to get the boat out of the water so as not to run up expenses.

Dan

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dmpilc
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 10:09:24

Folks regularly sail the C25 to Catalina Island off the CA coast, so it should be okay sailing around the Keys. I'll defer that to the FL members for comment.
Is there a metal plate on the inside of the transom under the tiller? If there and you do in fact have hull #42, then the plate should show #42. If you can find the full HIN number, it will indicate he month and year it was built, possibly 1976, but as Steve indicated, more likely 1977.

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Skipper Ddan
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 10:27:37

That is where I got the 42 from. Still looking for the HUL # but 77 is close enough for now. Thanks

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 10:32:49

The C-25 FK is considered by many to be a capable coastal cruiser--just not something you want to get caught in "out there" in a gale. How that translates to you and the Keys is something you undoubtedly can judge better than we... The two primary variables are the boat and its skipper. The boat can take more than most of us can, but it sounds like you are not our "typical" member.

One of our past commodores did a lot of ocean racing and serious cruising to Mexico and the islands out of San Diego on his C-25 SR/FK.

A few areas I would attend to for ocean sailing:

1. Replace the stem fitting with the later one with a tang that goes down the bow, for thru-bolting, from [url="http://catalinadirect.com/"]Catalina Direct[/url] (CD).

2. Add a couple of dogs to the pop-top, using something a little more secure than the factory ones.

3. Replace the cast aluminum spreader sockets with the welded stainless ones that Catalina switched to (CD again).

4. Add a simple latch to the top companionway hatch board.

5. Add mast gate plates (assuming you have slugs on the main) to make reefing easier and more effective by letting the slugs drop down to the gooseneck.

6. If you have a tall rig, consider the recent discussions here on raising the boom--for example by using a Capri 25 main.

There are others... You could start a thread on this some day, or "Search" for the many that have grown in the past.

Have you parted out a boat before? The biggest issue I see is when you get down to the hull and that 1900# hunk of cast iron.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 11:27:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skipper Ddan
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Where do you sail...?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I put "Portage Des Sioux, MO" into Google Earth and saw a long line of sailboats in a marina just off the Big Muddy north of St. Louis. You there, Dan??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, Look for "My River Home" There are actually four marinas there. river speed was 3 to 4 I believe. I traveled down the Mississippi in the Triton at 7 knots I think it was with a 9.9 just running at a low RPM. I looked fro the serial number on the transom yesterday but did not see one. I will look again.

To the other poster I was headed around the world on the Triton when I met someone from Peru and headed over there for almost a year, then brought her back. Now the Triton is a little much, but I am afraid the CAT will not be strong enough if I venture to the Keys. Around the world will have to wait again. :-( I do like being able to get the boat out of the water so as not to run up expenses.

Dan
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I raced and sailed my C25, tall rig, fin keel, for 23 years, and have been sailing and racing a friend’s Triton on average about 10-15 times or more per summer for the past 9 years.

The C25 is a coastal cruiser that is capable of making 50-75 mile open water passages within a reasonable weather window. My biggest single reservation about the C25 is that most were equipped with the optional pop top, and I don’t think the pop top is suitable for sailing in serious and prolonged heavy weather in open waters. As I recall, one guy reinforced the pop top and sailed it offshore, but I prefer a boat that is designed and built for the task, rather than one I modified in my back yard. The aluminum-rimmed portlights on the older C25s tend to leak, and could be a problem in a hard, driving rain at sea. The C25 is lots of fun to race, because it sails very well, and I believe it’s underrated, and easy to sail better than its rating predicts. The tall rig, with its increased sail area, is especially good in light air. I don’t know your exact plans, but, as I recall, some of our members have cruised the keys in their C25s, and don’t know any reason why it wouldn’t be suitable for that trip, assuming you generally hugged the coast to get there. The C25 is trailerable, but it’s a challenge. Because of its weight, it takes a strong, full-size tow vehicle in good mechanical condition to pull it. With planning, you can raise the mast singlehanded. It can sometimes be difficult to find a public launch ramp deep enough to trailer launch a fin keel with 4’ draft.

If you started off around the world in a Triton, there isn’t much I can add to your knowledge of the boat. It’s a great old design, and rugged as heck. With its fractional rig, it’s easy to sail. The mast is exceptionally tall for its LOA, so it has ample sail area to drive it, despite its weight and its full keel. If you plan to sail offshore, the Triton is unquestionably the better choice.

If you were going to use the boat mostly for racing, I’d recommend the C25, although my friend and I have lots of fun racing his Triton one-design on the Chesapeake Bay. However, I have a feeling that, if you cruise to the Keys, you won’t be satisfied hugging the Gulf Coast. If so, then I think the best choice is unquestionably the Triton.

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Skipper Ddan
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 12:01:39

I found the serial number. The lines were very thin so it was hard to see. CTYK0042M77 I can assume that it is a 77. is there anything else that can be seen from this number. I will work on some photos later today.

Dan

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 12:26:33

"CTY" refers to Catalina Yachts.

I assume the "K" references the keel type, either swing or fin.

The "M" referes to the month the hull was laid. It might mean March or May, but then again it could mean August. Somewhere there's a de-coder but I never thought it that important.

As to which boat might be preferred, it all depends on how you plan to get the boat to the Keys. If you're going to launch in Missouri, the Triton would be my choice. If you want to get there quickly and then start sailing, the C25 on its trailer would be the choice for me. I've fantasized about making the Great Circle Route. Over to Chicago, down the Mississippi, around Florida, up the East Coast and back to the Great Lakes. In your case, start in Missouri and finish there by way of Key West, NYC and Chicago. Never happen in my C250 though.

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Skipper Ddan
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 12:31:59

See if I uploaded photos correct. Looks like the L shaped dinette.

Dan

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dlucier
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 12:43:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I assume the "K" references the keel type, either swing or fin.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The "K" refers to the model K = C25

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Skipper Ddan
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 12:44:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 I've fantasized about making the Great Circle Route. Over to Chicago, down the Mississippi, around Florida, up the East Coast and back to the Great Lakes. In your case, start in Missouri and finish there by way of Key West, NYC and Chicago. Never happen in my C250 though.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I did not know about the Great Circle when I started this adventure. On my trip down the Mississippi I read a lot about it. To me it is a better choice than going around the world now. After spending some time in Peru I found that you are really at the government mercy when traveling abroad. In other words take a lot of money with you. In Lima I found only one marina and my pockets would never have been deep enough to stay there. On the other hand I had a very nice time on the Mississippi. Follow the good weather and live in relative peace all year round. I had great a experience in the Keys also last year. A great winter wonderland. For the next 6 years I am going to be limited to This area though. This is the reason i am considering keeping the CAT and selling the Triton. With the CAT I can easily sail up to Kentucky Lake and back, or just trailer it there. Same with the Keys. I think this boat was in "25 small boats that will take you anywhere" book. I know there were two CAT's in it along with the Triton. Well if I am going to keep it I may as well get started on the cleanup

Dan

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 12:55:47

Yup--the "L-dinette". Poor old girl does need some help! The "M" is puzzling--that should be the month designation A-L (A=August, B=Sept... L=July). Maybe that one languished in the plant and nobody could remember its date of conception.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/03/2012 12:58:45

Skipper Ddan
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 12:56:47

Sorry it was the CAL 20 and the CAT 27 but I think that it is still in the same ballpark with some modifications.

Dan

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PCP777
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 13:01:47

First off, I have a tall rig, and I have no idea why you would want to raise the boom unless you live somewhere the wind is 20 plus knots all the time. I have plenty of clearance, but yes crew has to pay attention when tacking or jibing.

SDd, in my opinion you have the best layout for down below, the L-Dinette. I have the same layout, and it's wide enough for both me and my wife to sleep comfortably. I always take the outside as I hang my legs over the end.

This is what it looks like with the table down and cushions on.

facing aft...

Edited by - PCP777 on 01/03/2012 14:00:50

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 13:03:20

I'd rather do it in a C-25 FK than a Cal 20! The C-27 is considerably stouter--more like the Triton, and most have inboards (better for ocean cruising).

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PCP777
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 14:02:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I'd rather do it in a C-25 FK than a Cal 20! The C-27 is considerably stouter--more like the Triton, and most have inboards (better for ocean cruising).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree about the C-27, though I do see a lot of them with outboards, maybe that's more a lake thing. Plus, you can stand up straight in a C-27.

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 14:15:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I'd rather do it in a C-25 FK than a Cal 20! The C-27 is considerably stouter--more like the Triton, and most have inboards (better for ocean cruising).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree about the C-27, though I do see a lot of them with outboards, maybe that's more a lake thing. Plus, you can stand up straight in a C-27.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think a C27 with an outboard is just a C27 with a dead Atomic four down below.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 14:38:17

It looks like you have more of a project than a boat.

Assuming that the boat is structurally sound, the first thing I'd do would be to put a large sump pump in the bilge and then take a power washer to her inside and out. Then, you'll be able to see what you really have. Is the gelcoat thin or just very dirty? Can't really tell from the phot but it looks suspiciously thin. I'd assume that all the deck hardware has to be re-bedded if not replaced. Not seeing any winches, etc., but the photo might just be from too far away. I'd be worried about the standing rigging. I'll just assume all the running rigging needs replaced. $1,000++ for standing and running rigging. Do you have the interior? Cushions will cost around $1,000 or more. Rudders of this vintage have cracking/splitting issues. Another $700-$1,000. Sails? If they're original, assume they're blown out. Off the shelf replacements (I like National Sail) will cost around $1500. How's the head and the rest of the plumbing? Electronics? Etc., etc., etc.

There are guys on this forum that would be drooling at the prospect of taking on a restoration like this. There's one guy that even completely re-gelcoated his hull and it is lovely. The question boils down to this: Do you want to go sailing or do you want to fix a boat?

Take a good look at the cost of restoration. Don't forget to include the cost of your time doing it. Remember that a seaworthy, ready-to-sail Catalina 25 can be had for around $5,000 - $7,500.

Edited by - John Russell on 01/03/2012 14:39:53

dlucier
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 14:43:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I'd rather do it in a C-25 FK than a Cal 20! The C-27 is considerably stouter--more like the Triton, and most have inboards (better for ocean cruising).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree about the C-27, though I do see a lot of them with outboards, maybe that's more a lake thing. Plus, you can stand up straight in a C-27.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think a C27 with an outboard is just a C27 with a dead Atomic four down below.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ever seen a C27 with a HULA?

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 15:55:43

That's just ugly. Looks like a plywood and paint transom.

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PCP777
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Response Posted - 01/03/2012 : 16:01:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 I'd rather do it in a C-25 FK than a Cal 20! The C-27 is considerably stouter--more like the Triton, and most have inboards (better for ocean cruising).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree about the C-27, though I do see a lot of them with outboards, maybe that's more a lake thing. Plus, you can stand up straight in a C-27.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think a C27 with an outboard is just a C27 with a dead Atomic four down below.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I believe they sold them that way, my friend's has an empty cavity where the engine would go, he has used it to to house his air conditioner. Not sure. I know of at least a couple on our dock alone.

Edited by - on

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