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Selling Boat and Storm Damage Question

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 09:54:31

I would take off the new sails and leave old ones on the boat. Talk to the agent about the outboard, especially if it is valued separately in the policy declarations.

Edited by - on

pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 11:51:56

Cate - I am in NJ and also keep my boat on the Barnegat Bay. If you need any hands-on help (swapping sails, etc.) I would be happy to do so. Email me: pat at duffyfamily dot org.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 19:01:23

I'm interested in the sails if you have a standard rig and possibly the motor if the price is right.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 19:45:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CateP
 The insurance adjuster is coming this week and I'm out of state. Can I remove the sails and motor AFTER the adjuster comes?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'd just remove them when you can, before turning the boat over. If you have your old sails, put 'em on... Sails are sails in this context. Your new ones will help offset your loss. If the motor (model, year, serial #) is listed on the policy, then you'll probably have to let that go. If not, that could be another grand (at least) for you.

I don't remember what you had listed her for, but as you go through this mess, keep in mind that an '83 SK is just an '83 SK... The pretty stuff should help her sell faster, but not for a lot more than "book value". When we make a boat "nicer than new", we do it for ourselves. After selling the motor and sails, you could end up with $6K+, which one could speculate is more than you'd have (eventually) sold her for. (NADA doesn't distinguish keels, and I believe lists inflated values in today's market.)

Best of luck!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/14/2011 20:31:37

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 19:59:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...I believe a Catalina 25 needs to carry 10k in boat insurance, that allows for a replacement boat to be purchased...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I think one needs to look at the differences in premiums for various agreed-on values and deductibles, consider what those differences would add up to over let's say 5-10 years, and consider how financially catastrophic a loss would be to us. Buying insurance for things we can reasonably afford to repair or replace is generally just a redistribution of wealth from ourselves to the insurance company.

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 04:27:09

One of the things that I noticed while many of you were preparing for hurricane Irene was that many of the boats that were "prepared" still had the outboard mounted. I know it's a PITA to remove, but it seems that an item that's potentially worth 25%, or more, of the boats value would have been removed?

My wife and I were discussing this thread and have decided that if we need to prepare for another hurricane, part of our prep will be to mount a strap under the keel to the topsides of the boat.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 06:57:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...I believe a Catalina 25 needs to carry 10k in boat insurance, that allows for a replacement boat to be purchased...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I think one needs to look at the differences in premiums for various agreed-on values and deductibles, consider what those differences would add up to over let's say 5-10 years, and consider how financially catastrophic a loss would be to us. Buying insurance for things we can reasonably afford to repair or replace is generally just a redistribution of wealth from ourselves to the insurance company.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Agree Dave, In my opinion, the boat doesn't need to be insured for nearly as much as its contents/upgrades, which in our case far eclipse the replacement cost of the hull. Our GPSs (2) and sails are worth more than the boat, let alone the VHF, stereo, hurricane lamp, Charts/guidebooks, bedding, Shore cable, tools, and contents of the liquor cabinet. *hic*

Not all those things have to be covered on the boat insurance, some may be covered separately in your other policies. Check with your insurer.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 08:42:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CateP
 . . . My advice to owners is that you insure your boat for as much as you can. Especially if you have a swing keel . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As well as a berth deep enough to accomdate the swing keel in the lowered position.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 13:10:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CateP
 . . . My advice to owners is that you insure your boat for as much as you can. Especially if you have a swing keel . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As well as a berth deep enough to accomdate the swing keel in the lowered position.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ah, but then again Kate's problem was caused when the keel ended up in the mud and then waves rocked the boat. Sounds like the safe place for a swinger is on the hard. (Calm down--those are nautical terms!

)

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 18:38:53

A very, very interesting thread on so many levels.

First and foremost, Cate, sorry for all you are going through and especially as you have one of the nicer boats. A small consolation: just be glad no one was hurt!

For what its worth, one guy's opinion: insurance is a funny thing, my coverage is based on my survey, which included in value of the specific engine. Others here have policy's written differently, so, read through yours VERY carefully -- the devil is in the details. Also, check your homeowners policy under "vehicles"(if you have one) as it may cover the "emergency" repairs/hauling and/or other expenses you may have or could incur. Before the boat leaves I would remove any sell-able items, such as anchor, stove -- even cushions -- unless the policy explicitly states that in case of loss, all equipment must be turned over with the hull. If the OB needs to be turned over you may find buying a clunker on CL for a couple of hundred and then selling the 9.8 will help offset other losses. Much of this sounds rotten, but at the end of the day the boat will be auctioned to someone who will either fix and sell her or part-her out. The insurance company may -- may -- get a grand regardless of gear on board, which to them is a 20% recovery to the payout to you.

And finally, just remember all of the good times, they are what count!

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 09/19/2011 : 18:58:21

Here is another update on this situation. The expert marine surveyor/insurance adjuster looked at the boat and said the hull fiberglass was fine. It was the keel bolt bushings that need to be fixed and yes, that could cause a leak. He made it sound like it wasn't a big deal and the repair may fall into my insured range.

So I may be back in the selling market at some point. I will be taking the best reasonable offer.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2011 : 07:49:29

That's great news Cate....hope Mysterious will be around for many years to come.

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pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2011 : 10:38:52

Interesting that the adjuster thought the hull was fine. My understanding of how the keel is attached is that there are 4 bolts holding the keel pin hanger to a threaded plate in the bottom of the hull. A leak from this area would most certainly mean that the fiberglass in this area would be damaged - right? Are there any pictures of the damage that you can post?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2011 : 17:19:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pfduffy
 . . . My understanding of how the keel is attached is that there are 4 bolts holding the keel pin hanger to a threaded plate in the bottom of the hull. A leak from this area would most certainly mean that the fiberglass in this area would be damaged - right?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I was thinking the same thing Pat - the keel bolt bushings are sunk into the glass

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2011 : 19:22:30

Yes, the entire assembly is on the outside of the hull and cannot leak without a hull compromise.

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CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2011 : 22:15:22

I talked to the marine surveyor again and told him there was water damage inside the cabin and he told me he didn't go inside to look. Now I am thinking that perhaps this marine surveyor didn't do a thorough inspection. In my mind if water is entering the cabin through the floorboards there is a leak in the hull of the boat somewhere. The surveyor went to re-examine the boat today so I'll find out more. (oddly enough this marine surveyor is highly regarded in the area)

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pfduffy
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2011 : 06:26:54

Are you certain that the water in the cabin came from the hull? I know that my boat, which normally remains bone dry, took rain through the hatch boards and other places during Irene. I also had an issue where the weep hole for the anchor was blocked and I took some water from that location as well. The rain was intense for a very long time. As a result, I had a few gallons of water in the bilge.

edit - as Dave points out below - nevermind!!

Edited by - pfduffy on 09/22/2011 07:10:57

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2011 : 06:34:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pfduffy
 Are you certain that the water in the cabin came from the hull?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Earlier in the thread, she said, "...there is a removable floor panel and that was filled with water. I bailed it out several times and it kept filling."

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2011 : 07:10:58

You may want to get an estimate from a qualified marine fiberglass repair firm and/or reputable boat yard -- guys who know what they are doing and the nuances of repair. If they concur that the repair is doable for an amount that could fall within your insurance coverage, then if a settlement is proposed you have the information YOU need. If they say it is totalled, then again, good information from real experts.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2011 : 07:14:23

Dave B., why do you say that the entire assembly is outside the hull? The swing keel pivot pin hangers are recessed into the hull so the attachment plates that the keel bolts screw into are also imbedded into the hull, not outside the hull. If the water under the boat goes skinny and the lowered keel goes into the mud, then severe rocking motion from wave action could very well result in damage to the keel at the pivot pin area and keel trunk, which is up inside the boat. If there is damage to the keel trunk, then any leak should be readily identifiable.

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Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2011 : 18:22:10

I just saw this thread today..... The keel hangar/bushings are not fiberglassed into the hull..The bolts that mount the bushings screw into some kind of plates which are imbedded in the hull .. I would agree that any keel that is stuck in the mud will cause the keel hangar bushings to exert twisting and turning pressure on the imbedded plates which could cause the hull to crack.

Frank Law
" About Time "
1983 # 3519
sr swk

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2011 : 12:27:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CateP
 . . . and he told me he didn't go inside to look . . . I am thinking that perhaps this marine surveyor didn't do a thorough inspection . . . oddly enough this marine surveyor is highly regarded in the area . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't think it is odd at all - after comparing notes with several other boat owners over the years - it is quite typical. "The cabintop shows no signs of leaks" wrote one surveyor. After puchasing the boat (based on the overall positive survey) the new owner discovered it leaked like a sieve. The survey was done on a rainy day. One of the hazards of copy and paste.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2011 : 14:16:03

If by some unfortunate turn of events, your boat is declared totaled, I would be willing to buy the companionway boards, if solid teak!

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/02/2011 15:43:57

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/02/2011 : 19:24:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Dave B., why do you say that the entire assembly is outside the hull?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I should have been more careful in my wording. As Frank said, threaded receivers are imbedded in the hull, not through it, and the entire pivot assembly is outside. The keel trunk is a continuation of the hull, not part of the keel system. The keel assembly can certainly compromise the hull, but no failure of the pivot assembly can leak into the bilge unless the hull cracks. The lifting cable is the only thru hull associated with the keel.

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2011 : 18:09:56

Cate, what's the latest?

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