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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Standing room under bimini

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rustybucket
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/28/2011 : 19:13:03

I have seen some talk about this in these forums, but I haven't seen anyone who
appears to have done it.

My boat is a Catalina '82 TR, SK, with a pop-top. I also have a bimini that attaches to
the genoa track.

What I want to do is have the bimini tall enough so that I can stand under it (I
am 5' 11").

What I propose to do is to attach aluminum tubing with connectors to the existing
legs of my bimini to make it taller and add extra length to the existing straps. I would
raise the boom above the transformed bimini (I would probably get a mast gate). If
the aft end of the boom contacts the backstay, I would have to get a shorter one (is
the mast of the '22 and the boom of the '25 the same extrusion?). For the main, I
could reef mine, and sail loose footed, or I could use a SR 25 main, or even another
brand.

Why would this not work?

Thanks Rusty Bucket

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2011 : 21:21:26

You might want to consider a Capri 25 main. I think it is about 1 ft. shorter than the C25 TR main.
That should put the boom several inches above the sail slot on the mast, so you would not need a mast gate. however, you might want it anyway to prevent the boom from accidentally coming out of the track. Or get a SR main and hoist it above the mast gate and put a sail slug stop under the boom. Either way, you will still be able to lower the boom in order to remove the main when you need to and reef when conditions call for it.

Be careful about raising the boom too high or it will hit the backstay when you tack. You will need to be extra careful regarding accidental gybes, so make sure to use the vang when sailing downwind.
Also, the boom is long because of the sheeting angle to the traveler, so it is inadvisable to shorten the boom unless you go to mid-boom sheeting. That might also adversely affect your ability to resell the boat down the road, as it would no longer meet class specs.

Edited by - dmpilc on 12/28/2011 21:27:38

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2011 : 08:53:37

The angle of the TR backstay should provide a little more clearance for the boom than on the SR. Raising the boom a foot, as on the SR, should not be a problem (assuming it's the same length). I wouldn't count on a sail track stop alone to keep the boom above the mast gate--when you drop the sail, the boom is likely to give it a good whack, driving it down in the kerf. Mine (below the gate) generally migrated downwards from time to time. Gate plates would be good insurance, but a more secure stopper, like maybe a bolt through the kerf above the gate, to the front of the mast, would be a good idea.

The SR sail would probably either hoist the boom too high, or would look like a reefed sail, with the head a couple of feet below the mast-head. If you have reef points on your TR sail, you could simulate it. The Capri sail has been mentioned before, and sounds like an economical solution--the Wayzatta guys probably have surplus sails. I wonder if anyone has tried it. In any case, I don't think you want the gooseneck to end up at the mast gate, whether you have gate plates or not.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 12/29/2011 08:59:25

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2011 : 09:03:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 The Capri sail has been mentioned before, and sounds like an economical solution-- I wonder if anyone has tried it. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I flew a Capri 25 mainsail on my Catalina 25 tall rig a few times. (The sailmaker sent me a Capri sail by mistake.) It fit ok but was one foot short for my tall rig. If one foot will provide you the extra clearance that you want, I don't know any reason why it won't serve that purpose.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2011 : 09:23:53

I think it will be hard to get enough room to stand under a raised bimini, except at anchor with the topping lift pulling the boom way up and out of the way!

My bimini just misses the bottom of my C25 SR boom and I have about 6" above my head when seated on a 4" cushion. I would need about 24" more to stand under the bimini.

I don't think our boats are meant for standing at the helm under a bimini. You can stand at the transom just behind the aft end of the boom, but you have little control over the tiller there without a tiller extension.

Without the bimini, I sometimes stand at the helm upwind of the boom when on a long reach or run with a gentle breeze. But I don't stand up routinely when sailing, and I tell all crew to "Sit down whenever anything unusual happens".

What's your motivation for making this modification?

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2011 : 12:31:03

Dave makes a good point, one I should have mentioned. Reefing a TR main reduces it to the approximate size of an unreefed SR main. Try that and place the boom about 6" above the slot and see how close the end of the boom is to the backstay. I would keep a min. of 3" clearance, more in heavy air.

Edited by - on

rustybucket
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2011 : 21:32:19

JohnP, my motivation? I want to sail on the Ohio river.

Rusty Bucket

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2012 : 10:07:59

That should be challenging. Lots of commercial traffic and current commonly 2 - 3 kts.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2012 : 10:33:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rustybucket
 JohnP, my motivation? I want to sail on the Ohio river.

Rusty Bucket
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I've never sailed the Ohio River, but friends used to trailer their boat there when our lake closed at the end of the season, and they sailed the Ohio River to extend the season. Apparently it can be done, but I could never understand how, because there is a lot of current, and the Cincinnati terrain around the river is very hilly, blocking the wind to some extent. It does sound challenging, but the people who I knew who did it were very skilled sailors, and I expect that helped. Also, the Ohio River at Cincinnati is the only sailing venue where I have seen the carcasses of river rats floating in the river. It's hard telling what else is floating there, but you don't want to take a face full of spray, or have your favorite sailing hat blown overboard, and retrieve it, and put it back on your head.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2012 : 23:05:06

It seems the taller Bimini would be harder to store or douse. I have found I can stand on the steps with the hatch forward under my Bimini. I have an auto-helm which allows me to stand and check for hazards.

Edited by - on

rustybucket
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Response Posted - 01/05/2012 : 18:34:11

I appreciate the help.

Thanks Rusty Bucket

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 08:55:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rustybucket
 What I want to do is have the bimini tall enough so that I can stand under it (I
am 5' 11").

What I propose to do is to attach aluminum tubing with connectors to the existing
legs of my bimini to make it taller and add extra length to the existing straps. I would
raise the boom above the transformed bimini (I would probably get a mast gate). If
the aft end of the boom contacts the backstay, I would have to get a shorter one (is
the mast of the '22 and the boom of the '25 the same extrusion?). For the main, I
could reef mine, and sail loose footed, or I could use a SR 25 main, or even another
brand.

Why would this not work?

Thanks Rusty Bucket
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sounds like a good plan to me, especially since I have been doing something similar for many years on Confetti.

I am 6'1", so we are close in height. I ended up compromising on being able to stand up straight, since I find I usually do not except at anchor. I am not really sure how much headroom I have, but I can "almost" stand straight.

I put in what I refer to as a "bimini reef" in my tall rig loose footed main. Basically its a slab reef that is about 12 or 14 inches up. I fully hoist the main, and use a gate to allow the boom to rise. It works quite well and is a LOT cheaper than buying another main (unless you were going to do that anyway). Most of the time we do not sail with the bimini up (I pull the pins on the aft bow and fold it forward into a sail cover I made for it), but the Florida sun sure makes it nice to use it when its hot or raining!!

At Anchor, I use an 8 ft wide x 10ft long sun shade that I rig up higher than the boom/main. It has three poles in it and the middle one has a loop to raise it up with the main halyard. It gives us a lot of shade and walkaround room, and rolls up and stows on deck beside the spinnaker pole when sailing.

Cheers!

Chuck

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 13:17:44

Chuck, do you have any pictures of the sun shade?

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2012 : 17:00:45

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2012 : 19:12:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 Chuck, do you have any pictures of the sun shade?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Jim,

I got some pics of the sunshade (and my 5 yr old grandson) today for you...

This first shot shows the sunshade rigged. It streaches between the mast and the backstay. Its 8ft wide and 10 ft long, with three aluminum tubes in sleeves to hold its shape. The ends of each of the tubes are plugged with wood, and drilled for a cord to pass thru and down to the lifelines. The center tube has a strap that goes inside the center sleeve and around the center tube. The main halyard lifts the center tube by that strap. There are grommets all around the sunshade to attach side curtains for when the sun gets low in a particular direction (no pictures of the shade panels)

This shot shows the end of one of the tubes. The lines that go to the lifelines also go thru the grommets in the sleeves to keep the cloth tensioned.

This is a shot of the center tube end, that shows the grommets and guy lines better.

This shot shows the center strap the main halyard attaches to.

This shot shows the line that goes around the backstay (it also has captured my topping lift tackle and pendant to the backstay for holding the boom up high.

This shot is looking down from above at the forward attachment line that goes around the mast to the forward pole. You can see the grommets that allow the tension to be on the pole rather than just on the cloth. The pole then tensions the cloth.

On hot days sailing a long ways downwind, I often put up the spinnaker and not the main, and use the sunshade instead of the bimini to give more walk around room. Its also a lot easier at anchor to get around with the sunshade instead of the bimini.

Since its rather large (80 square feet) if the wind come up a lot, it can develop a lot of force, so keep that in mind when you have it up and a thunderstorm hits. When it rains I set it up a bit lower, and use the side vurtains for the windward sides (I have curtains for two sides that can be attached to any of the two sides), and I generally can't the shade a bit to one side by adjusting the guy lines to get water to drain off quicker. The cloth is Sunbrella acrillic (sail cover cloth) and I spray it down each year with some spray on canvas waterproofing. Does not seem to leak much, if any)

For stowage, I roll it up and stow in on deck beside the spinnaker pole.

Hope this helps!

Chuck

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2012 : 11:41:34

Chuck,
The images aren't coming up for me, or at least not inline with your description. I was able to dig around in the HTML and find the links to the pictures, but Google does something funky when I try to embed the links in here and they don't work. Copying and pasting them into the browser worked fine, though. Between what I saw and your description, it makes sense now - thanks!

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 01/11/2012 : 15:37:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 Chuck,
The images aren't coming up for me, or at least not inline with your description. I was able to dig around in the HTML and find the links to the pictures, but Google does something funky when I try to embed the links in here and they don't work. Copying and pasting them into the browser worked fine, though. Between what I saw and your description, it makes sense now - thanks!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Jim,

Hmmm, they seem to be coming up OK for me on the Catalina Forum site?

Glad you were able to see them however.

Chuck

Edited by - on

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