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Selling Boat and Storm Damage Question

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CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/08/2011 : 22:26:57

Hi All,
As many of you know I have been trying to sell my 1983 SK SR Catalina-25 in New Jersey. Well today I went down to check out my boat (in the water) for the first time since the Irene storm came through. (I was out of state). Long story short, the keel cable broke and the boat had about an inch of water in the cabin. (leak) Luckily the keel fell in soft mud about a couple feet down, but the tossing created a leak somewhere. In addition the stern cleats are shot and need re-attaching. I know I am looking at hundreds if not over a thousand $$ in repair work here.

My questions are:
Should I sell it as is for a low, low price? (suggestions welcome)
Should I see if my insurance will cover the repairs and pay the deductible? And then sell it for low price? (suggestions welcome)

I made a web site for selling the boat that gives details of upgrades and has lots of pictures.

http://www.catepoole.com/Mysterious_For_Sale/Home.html

Thanks in advance for replies.

Edited by - CateP on 09/08/2011 22:27:50

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 00:25:26

Ouu...sorry to hear that.

Photos can help estimating the required work. If there is a mud bellow your boat then keel trunk could be ok.

That water in the bilge can be caused by the holes of the torn out cleats.
Last year I had just a small torn bellow the stern port cleat and every strong rain means a lot of water in the bilge. The reason of the tore was simply the wet plywood core.

My suggestion is to repair it and then sell, but it depends if you have time for that to do it yourself.
Your boat looks nice and clean.

Good luck.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 06:05:26

I'd be on the phone with the insurance company today.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 06:11:45

Ditto John. file the claim.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 07:36:27

Are you sure the water is from the keel?? In heavy rain from the right direction, we can get water in the hollow by the galley just from rain through the hatchboards. Its easy to mop up, but there are many ways other than the keel for water to have gotten in during that storm.

Were I you, I would dry everythign out, leave the boat for a day or two, then come back to see if the water had returned. If the water had, then I would start thinking about insurance.

Where the cleats were compromised, are you saying the FG around them failed, or that the cleats were loosened, or what? If the FG is torn out, then get a quote and decide whether its worth putting through, but if the quote comes back cheapish, you may change your mind.

When we had work done on our keel, insurance was incredibly simple and genial about it all, and we didn't report teh damage until months afterwards.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 08:27:41

I've called the insurance company and am getting an estimate on the repairs. Stern cleats are in place, but really loose. There was a definite keel drop and the water was definitely coming in from the keel trunk area. I have the wooden box over the keel trunk off and it seemed okay in the water. Right next to the box (starboard) there is a removable floor panel and that was filled with water. I bailed it out several times and it kept filling.

The marina guys were able to get a couple of belly bands under the keel and ratchet it up enough so we could back out of the slip. (Luckily the bottom is soft mud. We created a new channel). Boat is now blocked and out of imminent danger.

Keel cable was replaced last year and boat was kept in water over winter for those who want to know.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 08:37:47

Sounds like insurance is the right choice then. If you are lucky they may scrap the baot. I am not sure if you can ask for the money for the repair and then walk away from it.

Edited by - on

Captnkev25
1st Mate

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USA
36 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 10:19:30

What a shame. She was beautiful. I eyed your link with envy a little after I bought my 84 swing keel. I hope you can repair her to your satisfaction. If not whoever gets her fixed up right will have a beautiful boat. Keep us posted with what you decide to do. Best of luck.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 10:58:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Sounds like insurance is the right choice then. If you are lucky they may scrap the baot. I am not sure if you can ask for the money for the repair and then walk away from it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think the damage is anywhere near a total loss. I also don't think the insurance company cares if you repair a boat and then sell it. What are they going to say? "You must keep the boat for at least a year after repairs are made.?!"

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 11:20:18

Our keel repair was $5500 - nearly the value of teh boat. We were tempted to ask for the money and then sell the boat as-is or part it out.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 11:27:05

I have no idea the extent of your damage in total from the storm, but I think you are going to be very surprised by two things:

1. The cost of repairs.
2. The value of your boat.

Don't get me wrong, I love Mysterious and she's beautiful...an inspiration to me as I refit my own baby. But, you asked once before why she wasn't selling...and we told you....and the asking price, while reduced, still is not reasonable for the market. Of course, you never know, someone may eventually come along, and honestly I really hope they do! For you and the lucky new owner.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 11:49:22

Hopefully, you have an "agreed value" insurance policy.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 11:50:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Our keel repair was $5500 - nearly the value of teh boat. We were tempted to ask for the money and then sell the boat as-is or part it out.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ah I see. Well if my repair is $5500 then I am REALLY sunk! But I see where you are coming from.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 12:30:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We were tempted to ask for the money and then sell the boat as-is or part it out.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

From what I see at usauctions.com and yachtsalvage.com, if the insurance company "totals" the boat, they will have it auctioned off to recoup some of the loss. They, not the owner, keep the boat.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 12:34:20

Yes, if they total it, but we could have taken the money and done the repair ourselves, or sold the boat unrepaired and taken the loss in value.

Bear in mind that this is in a very different market than you guys are facing in the States. In Canada right now, people are still asking $9500 + for a basic C-25, and repairs are very expensive.

Edited by - Prospector on 09/09/2011 12:36:43

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 14:42:34

Asking and getting are 2 different things. If anyone in Canada wants to buy my boat for US$9,500, I'll gladly rent a tow vehicle and deliver it myself! I wonder what paperwork would be involved. There's one currently for sale on Ebay for $8,200 and change, but it looks like there are few takers.

Edited by - dmpilc on 09/09/2011 14:43:58

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 19:51:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 Asking and getting are 2 different things. If anyone in Canada wants to buy my boat for US$9,500, I'll gladly rent a tow vehicle and deliver it myself! I wonder what paperwork would be involved.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't know Canadian Law....but I bet delivery, taxes and import fees are easily 50% of that price.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2011 : 22:44:22

Taxes are 8% of invoice (Equal to GST, IIRC) and import fees are $0.

Delivery is up to the seller/buyer to figure out.

Edited by - Prospector on 09/09/2011 22:45:26

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2011 : 06:34:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Joe Diver
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 Asking and getting are 2 different things. If anyone in Canada wants to buy my boat for US$9,500, I'll gladly rent a tow vehicle and deliver it myself! I wonder what paperwork would be involved.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't know Canadian Law....but I bet delivery, taxes and import fees are easily 50% of that price.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Can you say NAFTA?

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2011 : 06:38:25

Really? Why are all the Canadian guys griping about taxes and fees then? See it all the time on the Jeep Forum....some of them talk about sending parts to family/friends in the US then driving over the border to get them.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2011 : 10:10:17

Parts is different.

If you bring say, a sail in, then the courier or shipper or whatever charges an arbitrary brokerage fee. That fee is not from the gubbermint, it is from the broker/shipper. For UPS it is incredibly high. For USPS it is about $5, but you need to have mucho patience.

So whenver I buy something from the states, I get it shipped USPS and give myself about 2 months for it to reach me.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2011 : 08:13:47

Kate, it makes sense that the keel, when stuck in the mud with some wave action, would cause damage to the trunk--probably right around the pivot point. That's a very structural issue, and indeed might be pretty expensive.

A friend had his 39' boat wash up on the rocks in a storm--damage to one side of the hull--declared a total... The insurance company gave him the money and the boat. They had no interest in trying to dispose of it... So he now has another boat and a long-term project. If that happened to you, you would have a variety of options--having her repaired, trying to sell her as-is (at a very low price), or parting her out. The latter leaves you with some huge hunks of fiberglass and cast iron to dispose of...

So, go to work with your insurance company and see where it leads.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 08:30:42

Update on situation and hopefully helpful advice to Catalina owners.
It looks like the repair is going to exceed my insurance coverage ($4500). If that happens the boat is considered "totaled" and my insurance company will give me the $4500 and I give them title and the boat. But I don't walk away with $4500. I owe the marina for the emergency haul and have a deductible, so after 6 years and almost $15k in upgrades I walk away with less than $4k. The boat goes into salvage and is auctioned off.

Almost brand new Neil Pryde sails...perfectly working Tohatsu 9.8...

Very sad ending to my Catalina-25.

My advice to owners is that you insure your boat for as much as you can. Especially if you have a swing keel.

Edited by - CateP on 09/14/2011 08:32:59

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 09:32:55

Start selling parts now.

The motor is not part of the boat. If you still have the older sails, put them on and sell the new ones. Remove and sell all the safety equipment, also not part of the boat. Etc, etc, etc.

The lesson here is to have "agreed value" insurance.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 09:42:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Start selling parts now.

The motor is not part of the boat. If you still have the older sails, put them on and sell the new ones. Remove and sell all the safety equipment, also not part of the boat. Etc, etc, etc.

The lesson here is to have "agreed value" insurance.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The insurance adjuster is coming this week and I'm out of state. Can I remove the sails and motor AFTER the adjuster comes? PANIC.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 09:48:11

Just let them know via email (before the adjuster sees the boat), that the sails are borrowed and the motor is not part of the boat. My insurance has separate policy amounts for the boat, trailer, and motor. I believe a Catalina 25 needs to carry 10k in boat insurance, that allows for a replacement boat to be purchased. Sorry for the rough waters, I hope the end of the story turns out well.

Edited by - on

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