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Later Model C-250s: Poorer Quality?

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MartinJW
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241 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2009 : 17:30:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Martin, was the trailer extension issue never remedied from last year? How about your other issues?
Steve A
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve,

The other issues weren't really addressed, but this was partly my fault. Catalina attempted to contact me a couple of times, but I was too busy to get back to them at the time. Then the season was over, and the boat was put into winter storage. This year we've simply been enjoying the boat, and we just decided to live with most of these little glitches.

I built a new, sturdier cabin table. We've simply gotten accustomed to the fact that the DECK switch doesn't activate any light. The tape on the cosmetic dings is still there. I added cleats to the mast to make up for the missing cams on the tack end of the boom.

NEW PROBLEM: After we pulled the boat out last week, we noticed 30-40 (or more) small bubbles in the gelcoat on the rudder, just below the waterline. I e-mailed Catalina about this a week ago, but I haven't heard back yet.

The trailer really is a problem. We essentially can't use the tongue extension, and it will be just about impossible to launch or retrieve our boat on Lake Tahoe without this option. It'll probably just sit all winter, and I'll look into fixing it around April of next year.

Unfortunately, we--my wife and I--think that Catalina's quality (or at least their quality control) has gone downhill relative to the 1992 Capri 16 and 2007 Catalina 18 boats that we owned previously. All in all, however, I think I'd still choose the C-250wk over, say, the Hunter 25.

Hope this is helpful,
Martin

Edited by - MartinJW on 10/01/2009 11:22:14

windsong
Captain

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Response Posted - 09/25/2009 : 18:58:27

Wow, interesting thread. As a new C250 owner, I have had my share of problems, particularly the inadequate wheel steering and a problem with the mast raked 12" apparently caused by a forestay that is too long. (Grr. Still, working this problem thru the dealer. Exchanged a few emails with Frank Butler), furler backwards, to name a few. But I think some problems are inevitable. Overall, I have been VERY impressed with this boat. I have sailed it very hard this year, day, night, storms, alone, big groups, docking mishaps, overnight cruises, a grounding, and so on. There are people at my marina who would say I have sailed such a boat TOO hard (a few in this forum, perhaps?). She even proved fast enough to take 3rd in the Governor's Cup, which is just amazing when you look consider what it was built to do. I set out to buy a boat I could sail for the next 5 years till my kids go off to college, and I am a happy customer.

Edited by - on

MartinJW
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241 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2009 : 19:30:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by windsong
 Wow, interesting thread. As a new C250 owner, I have had my share of problems, particularly the inadequate wheel steering and a problem with the mast raked 12" apparently caused by a forestay that is too long. (Grr. Still, working this problem thru the dealer. Exchanged a few emails with Frank Butler), furler backwards, to name a few. But I think some problems are inevitable. Overall, I have been VERY impressed with this boat. I have sailed it very hard this year, day, night, storms, alone, big groups, docking mishaps, overnight cruises, a grounding, and so on. There are people at my marina who would say I have sailed such a boat TOO hard (a few in this forum, perhaps?). She even proved fast enough to take 3rd in the Governor's Cup, which is just amazing when you look consider what it was built to do. I set out to buy a boat I could sail for the next 5 years till my kids go off to college, and I am a happy customer.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I completely agree, Michael. We really love our C-250; all things considered, it's the perfect boat for us.

I only wish they (Catalina) could get the details 100% nailed down. Our boat cost us $43,000--the second largest amount of money I've ever spent (2nd only to our mortgage)--and I think they ought to be able to get it right at that price. (Think about spending $40k on a car! You KNOW the owner's manual would be complete and correct, and the car would be in perfect working order when you received it, etc.)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this,
Martin

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 09/26/2009 : 08:13:15

Martin, Its a shame quality is down. I was really bummed Catalina moved to Florida, being from CA. But I think I read 80% of sales are from east coast. Still lets hope they work the bugs out.
Even though you have fixed or accepted some of the problems, I would still contact dealer and or Catalina. I would not let the problem with the tongue extension go on. One day it will come back to bite you. $43k is a lot to pay and you deserve these problems fixed.
Steve A

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2009 : 11:59:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mhartong
 [quote]Originally posted by Turk
 ...Why should Martin have to call Catalina directly to get a fix? Do you call GM or Ford for fixing a problem with a new car... I would think not ( or maybe you do) You start with the dealer first then escalate if they are not responding.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The warranty work relationship between a car dealer and the car co. is different from boats. It seems boat buyers generally need to get the builder to agree to pay somebody (not necessarily the dealer) to fix things. As noted, Frank Butler seems to want to be the decision-maker in each case--kind of amazing, but also a good sign. (The production people probably get an ear-full from him.) I wonder what he'd have to say about the red tape! Sounds like a premature birth...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/26/2009 12:02:29

mhartong
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152 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2009 : 13:01:20

I can certainly agree with you on the accuracy of the owners manual. I've got so many "red lines" to reflect the actual "as built" condition on Persephone that one might think that someone bled out over it. That's the only thing after 3 years that I can really complain about- and at that its a relatively minor thing all things considered (and not totally unexpected).

Even on multimillion (billions today :-) ) submarines that were "sister" ships, the "as built" conditions differed. They may have the "exact" same systems (by plan), but when you actually went to locate a component, you could almost be assured that it would not be in the exact same place on each boat. Then when started adding "ship alts" that were installed (or hadn't yet been installed) by different shipyards, repair facilities, or ship's company at different times, the best you could say about the applicability of the tech manual from one boat to another was it gave you a general idea of what to expect. Even when you looked at a tech manual for an individual boat, it still often wasn't quite right, especially if earlier crews had not been religious in updating the manual with the changes. About the only two things you could expect to always find up to date and accurate were the Reactor Plant Manual (RPM) and the Navigation Charts. I wasn't always quite sure of the later- Naval Reactors was fanatical about the accuracy of the RPM, Squadron was never quite as fanatical about the NOTAM in the same way (unless you had run aground or hit somebody or something)

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/27/2009 : 16:17:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The trailer really is a problem. We essentially can't use the tongue extension, and it will be just about impossible to launch or retrieve our boat on Lake Tahoe without this option. It'll probably just sit all winter, and I'll look into fixing it around April of next year.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When it is nearing launch time ask about "strap launching." It is how we launch our WK and no trailer extension is needed. Works great and not hard to do.

Edited by - on

MartinJW
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Response Posted - 10/01/2009 : 11:21:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The trailer really is a problem. We essentially can't use the tongue extension, and it will be just about impossible to launch or retrieve our boat on Lake Tahoe without this option. It'll probably just sit all winter, and I'll look into fixing it around April of next year.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When it is nearing launch time ask about "strap launching." It is how we launch our WK and no trailer extension is needed. Works great and not hard to do.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for the tip, Randy. However, I have one, possibly dumb question:

What's "Strap Launching"?

Thanks,
Martin

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 10/01/2009 : 11:38:46

Randy will give you a better detail but he essentially disconnects the trailer from his truck when he gets to the ramp, puts a strap (adequate for the load) between the truck and the trailer and lets gravity back the trailer into the water and never gets his truck wet. (That's a bigger issue in salt water.) He reverses the process for retrieval. Pretty cool technique.

Edited by - John Russell on 10/01/2009 11:39:52

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 10/01/2009 : 13:09:59

We just pulled two C250 WK's out yesterday - end of season - using the strap technique. We used 60' (2 X 30') of strap. As John states it is simply using a heavy duty strap (4" industrial) to connect the truck and trailer. Basic steps:

Back the trailer to the water's edge at the ramp.
Chock the trailer wheels.
Uncouple the truck from the trailer.
Pull truck forward.
Attach strap to trailer and truck.
Pull truck forward and tension the strap.
Remove chocks.
Back up truck until boat floats off (or can float on for retrieval)
Pull truck forward until trailer is out of water.
Chock the trailer tires.
Back up the truck to remove tension on the strap.
Remove the strap.
Back up truck to trailer and recouple.
Remove chocks.
Pull away happy.

That's the basics. There are a few extra items to make it even easier. I will post photos and a few more tips if you like.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 10/01/2009 13:11:42

John Russell
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Response Posted - 10/01/2009 : 16:37:48

Another advantage to the strap method is that he doesn't lose traction on a slippery ramp. The truck can be on relatively flat, dry pavement while under load.

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Dave Brown
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Response Posted - 10/24/2009 : 10:38:26

Mr Martin JW, and Nautiduck.

I have strap Launched and tried to strap retrieve. (My Catalina 250 WK #411).
If--and only if, the ramp is steep enough will this work.
Now if where you live, you know the ramp, well then this works just fine.
But take the boat to another ramp, and things could be different.

Now I know this launch thing works, the boat and strap did not stay together, and down the boat, and trailer went, about 20mph. As the thing settled into the water, off floated the boat.
Now this tolled me a few things.

1. The ramp was not steep enough. The boat and trailer would not have gone fat enough in the water by just backing it in with the strap. (Inertia).
2. With just the weight of the trailer, "the strap retrieve", would not have put the trailer in the water far enough to allow the boat to float onto the trailer.
3. I need a tongue extension. But not one that slides in and out. One that is 20' long, with a hitch one one end and a ball on the other. 2" square tube. 3/16" side walls. (One could put small wheels on one end if the wight was to much).
Hows that work?? Just like the strap. only now you can back the trailer down the ramp, block it, hook up the extension, then back the trailer in the water as far, or not, as you need.
Its about a $100.00 or less fix. and it works for me in Nebr.

As you see above I have a 250 Wk. that's why I add my 2 cents worth.
questions?

Dave B.
____________/)____________/)___________/)))))______________________
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Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 10/26/2009 : 13:18:26

Dave, our ramp is not steep but it is long. Is there something wrong with your trailer brakes/wheels? The trailer, with or without boat, should roll down a ramp even if it is not steep.

It is essential that the strap be well attached to the trailer and boat. It must have been scary to see the boat and trailer fly down the ramp like that! Were the wheels chocked? How did the strap get loose? How did you retrieve the trailer??

We have one of those 20' extensions that you describe at our club. It would not be enough for me. We use at least 60' of strap. Like I said it is a long but not steep ramp. Always works fine for us.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 10/26/2009 13:35:00

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 10/26/2009 : 16:02:36

Recommended changes to Randy's technique in red.
Back the trailer to the water's edge at the ramp.
Chock the trailer wheels. We chock all four wheels due to a little excitement we had with the trailer backing itself over one of our chocks once. Lesson learned. Also, nobody is allowed to walk behind the truck or trailer during this, it's all the way around the front to chock the far side. There's no way to dodge three tons of boat/trailer should it let go.
Leaving the boat connected to both the coupler & safety chains, attach the strap (we actually use a 1-1/4" piece of Samson Braid, but same thing).
Lower 5th wheel toward the ground and uncouple hitch with upward pressure from the jack stand.
Push trailer hitch to one side enough to clear the ball, and
Lower 5th wheel to the ground by raising jackstand. The pushing aside is usually not necessary, the trailer will roll back a tiny bit onto the chocks which is usually enough to clear.
Disconnect safety chains.

Pull truck forward and tension the strap.
Remove chocks.
Back up truck until boat floats off (or can float on for retrieval)
If forward pads do not go underwater, do not try to launch / retrieve ([url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13603&SearchTerms=launch"]ask me how I know some time[/url]).
Pull truck forward until trailer is out of water.
Chock the trailer tires. (again all four, again nobody behind it, so go all the way around)
Back up the truck to trailer to remove tension on the strap.
Attach safety chains
Recouple.
Remove the strap.
Remove chocks.
Pull away happy.

Edited by - on

Dave Brown
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Response Posted - 10/27/2009 : 18:58:01

Nautiduck;

Now I'm sure we've all made some mistakes in our live,
I'm one that just tells it as it is.

Our ramp, like most, doesn't just keep going down and down and down. It levels out, and that's where the motorboats do there prop-wash thing. So, as most ramps, rocks, sand, or the prop-wash holes are down there, just looking for a tire to mess with.
Yes the trailer was blocked, Yes the strap was put on the trailer.
Yes the truck took up the slack, then started to back down the ramp.
The trailer is in outstanding condition. (oh- there's a mil> term).
BUT some were along the way--things came undone.

Now I could have keep this all to my self. But NO, I half to put it all out there, so maybe, just maybe, some one can learn by my mistakes.
Any trailer will roll down a ramp, But what,s under the water is a uncontrollable factor. That was my point.
DB
_____________/)_____________/)____________/))))________________
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Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 10/27/2009 : 21:04:52

Dave,
One of the things I've learned to do is to sound the water as far down as I think the trailer will go. I tie a clevis hook to a piece of line and drop it alongside the dock. This is imperfect, but it may identify holes for you. I've located a drop off this way that kept me from rolling over a 1' drop off that would have bottomed out my trailer.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 10/28/2009 : 13:57:19

Dave, I hear you. And, yes, we have all made mistakes - me more than my share! And quite a few of them at the ramp.

I guess we are lucky. The ramp at our club is looong (about 150'), smoothly paved, and angled the entire way. With a long enough strap the trailer would roll all the way to the end. But it's a sailing club where lots of people strap launch so I guess it was built to be good at that. We have people launching 30' fin keeled boats on this ramp.

By the way here is a special hitch we use. It is called a pintle hitch. This makes certain that the strap will not come loose at the vehicle end.

Edited by - on

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