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Later Model C-250s: Poorer Quality?

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MartinJW
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USA
241 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/18/2008 : 23:19:07

Hello Everyone,

Our 2008 C-250 (mkII, #973) is, I believe, one of the first C-250s to be built in Florida (after being built in southern California for about the past 12-13 years). This boat also features a different manufacturer for the spars than the boats built in California. I have a couple of concerns/issues that I am going to share with Catalina, but I thought that this information could be helpful for the members here, too.

#1. We attempted to use the cabin table for the first time this past week. However, under very slight pressure the table became disconnected from the fitting that slides over the table support - the screws easily pulled out from the tabletop; the failure was instantaneous. The fitting was connected to the tabletop with 3/8" or possibly 1/2" screws, which were completely inadequate for this purpose; probably 1" screws would have been appropriate. I don't know if this is a quality control / manufacturing issue or a design problem, but it was not very impressive to set up the brand-new table only to have it come crashing down as we placed a board game on the surface.

#2. Despite the fact that there is a switch on the electrical panel labeled "DECK", there is no deck light on our boat. Again, I'm not sure if this was an oversight during manufacturing or Catalina has eliminated this feature. (On our 2007 C-18, the deck light was incorporated into the steaming light on the mast.)

#3. There are about a half dozen small pieces of red tape inside our cabin; each piece of red tape is near a small "glitch" in the finish. It appears that these pieces of tape were used to identify defects during manufacturing, but the boat was delivered with these blemishes unfixed (and easily located!). Again, this is NOT very impressive.

#4. There are, I believe, supposed to be 3 cam-type cleats at the tack end of the boom. These secure the first reefing line, the second reef, and the outhaul. Upon closer inspection, it appears that two of these cams are missing. (Also near the tack end of the boom, U.S. Spars has placed some sort of manufacturer's placard/sticker - on our boat this sticker is MOUNTED UPSIDE DOWN.) Again, U.S. Spar and/or Catalina are nonplussed by this sloppy work.

I'll keep the members informed as this unfolds.

Martin

Sept. 12, 2008 UPDATE:

Catalina has contacted me about some of these issues via e-mail and telephone. They've left 3 messages for me, but I've not been near a telephone during their regular office hours in Florida. They did send me a set of cams that I need to install at the tack end of the boom.

However, here's another glitch to add to the list:

#5. We used the brand-new, made-in-Florida, Sail-n-Trail trailer to pull the boat out yesterday. We used the extension, which only adds about 4' to the length by the way, to pull the boat up a ramp and move it across the parking lot - probably 200-300 feet. When we attempted to "shorten" the extension tongue, we found that it would not slide back in to place. In fact, it looks like the trailer extension has bent slightly, and this is keeping it from sliding at all; it appeared to be jammed. Someone at the boatyard used a small utility vehicle to push the extension tongue back in, but this is obviously not working properly. I haven't done anything about this yet, but what a pain in the ass.

C25/250 Int'l Ass'n Member
2008 C-250 WK #973
"Bluebell"
Lake Tahoe, CA/NV

Edited by - MartinJW on 09/12/2008 10:56:38

mhartong
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Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 05:58:17

Martin

Who is commissioning your boat? These items are things that the commissioning dealer should have caught, and fixed, before they handed the boat over to you. I know this probably doesn't make you feel any better, but it sounds like your commissioning dealer did not completely do their job.

When Persephone first arrived at the dealer (Chesapeake Yacht Sales) and before they turned her over to me they had set up and tested the installation and operation of every system on board. This included a sea trial under power and under sail as well as washing and waxing

Then before they actually signed her over to me, they put a service tech on board with me who went through the entire process again (including sea trials) as well as basic maintenance items on the systems

Any additional issues I identified were put on a punch list for correction. They even went as far as topping off the fuel tank and the water tank, and then pumped out the holding tank with me just to make sure I knew where the diesel fill was, where the water tank fill was, and where the holding tank pump out was. It was only then that they asked me to sign for the boat.

As the items on the punch list were worked off (it was a very short list, only a couple of items, and more cosmetic than substantive), I was notified, but the item was not removed from the list until I had a chance to verify it. Then roughly 6 months after I had signed for her, the service manager contacted me to see if there were any further issues I had discovered.

My commissioning was probably a bit more complicated, and took the dealer more time, than the usual C250 since I have a saildrive.

Mark

Edited by - mhartong on 08/19/2008 06:34:15

frankr
Captain

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Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 12:07:46

WOW - kudos to your dealer Mark - for doing an outstanding job on commissioning.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:03:54

I'm with Mark and would be knocking on the office door of the dealer!

Mark, you should promote that dealer! Sounds like an excellent example of quality service. I bet even with the time taken, their profit margin made it worthwhile for all concerned.

Paul.

Edited by - on

MartinJW
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241 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:07:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mhartong
 Martin

Who is commissioning your boat? These items are things that the commissioning dealer should have caught, and fixed, before they handed the boat over to you. I know this probably doesn't make you feel any better, but it sounds like your commissioning dealer did not completely do their job.

When Persephone first arrived at the dealer (Chesapeake Yacht Sales) and before they turned her over to me they had set up and tested the installation and operation of every system on board. This included a sea trial under power and under sail as well as washing and waxing

Then before they actually signed her over to me, they put a service tech on board with me who went through the entire process again (including sea trials) as well as basic maintenance items on the systems

Any additional issues I identified were put on a punch list for correction. They even went as far as topping off the fuel tank and the water tank, and then pumped out the holding tank with me just to make sure I knew where the diesel fill was, where the water tank fill was, and where the holding tank pump out was. It was only then that they asked me to sign for the boat.

As the items on the punch list were worked off (it was a very short list, only a couple of items, and more cosmetic than substantive), I was notified, but the item was not removed from the list until I had a chance to verify it. Then roughly 6 months after I had signed for her, the service manager contacted me to see if there were any further issues I had discovered.

My commissioning was probably a bit more complicated, and took the dealer more time, than the usual C250 since I have a saildrive.

Mark
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mark,

Thanks for sharing this.

I have no idea about what is appropriate for commissioning. Your situation sounds like the ideal, dream, extreme experience, and I would have welcomed it. My experience was not like yours, but I'm still satisfied. (However, I'm envious.)

Here are some questions for everyone here:

If you bought a new Catalina, what was YOUR commissioning experience?

Did your dealer do everything that Mark has described, did the dealer simply drop the boat off in your driveway, or was it something in between?

Were you happy with your dealer during the buying process?

Has Catalina ever checked with you, after the sale, with questions about your buying experience?


My dealer spent two very long, hot days getting the boat rigged and launched. He even towed the boat from his shop to the ramp / marina for us. Before the boat was launched, he kept it in his shop - covered and secure - for two months at no charge to us. Additionally, he included items that had become options after we ordered our boat at no extra cost to us.

I'm happy with what he's done, but should he have caught some of these issues? Maybe. There's no way he would have seen the too-short screws on the underside of the table, but maybe the table would have failed when he demonstrated the set it. Additionally, Catalina seems to make so many design changes "on the fly", that I don't see how any dealer could be expected to know if a boat's been incompletely manufactured or simply built to changed specifications.

In any case, your points are well-taken, Mark.

Thanks again,
Martin

Edited by - on

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2008 : 14:27:26

Our dealer prepped the boat including mounting the mast crutch on a 2nd set of Pintals.
Delivered the boat to the ramp and lanuched it.
Walked me though the launch process including bending the sails on, raising the mast, etc.
Took us for the sea trial and took notes of any issues we had (missing the tool kit for the engine.)
And all of that was on a Sunday morning when he was scheduled to take his kids scout group on a trip out of town.

He followed up with the delivery of the tool kit and enquired how we were doing. He stays in touch even after 3 years.

We have met with him at all the local strictly sail shows and he always recoginizes us and enquires of the mods I have made (he lurks around here on occasion.)

We would recommend them anytime!

http://www.boatersexchange.com

Paul

Edited by - on

Turk
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Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 06:10:33

Edited by - on

jlannutti
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102 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 13:05:49

I read these posts with great concern. I expect to put a For Sale sign on me beloved Gracie (98 WB)about a year from now in anticipation of moving up in size the following year...(I retire that year) I'll be looking for a much heavier boat with diesel power as I'll have the time for much longer cruises. (Chesapeake, Long Island Sound, and even perhaps Florida & Bermuda) I now have some concerns regarding the quality and workmanship of the recent vintage Catalinas. I've always been very happy with Gracie and have had no problems...I take very good care of her. I had no intentions of limiting myself to looking for a Catalina only but now have some concerns as to whether I should be looking at them at all.

Edited by - on

mhartong
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152 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 13:15:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Turk
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mhartong
 Martin

Who is commissioning your boat? These items are things that the commissioning dealer should have caught, and fixed, before they handed the boat over to you.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The dealer is supposed to re-glass and or re-gelcoat the interior finish?? I think not. This looks like pre production startup problems and a call to Frank Butler is required. He will return your call. He handles most of the warranty issues for his company.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, I don't expect the dealer to necessarily re-glass and or re-gelcoat the interior finish (though if the spots that needed repair were already marked and if they could have been spot repaired I don't see why the dealer could not have done the fix before delivery). I would expect the dealer, at the very least, to have already identified the problem to Catalina and to have some idea of the course of action required BEFORE he delivered the boat.

It is most likely that the repair will involve having access to the boat. Martin should, at the very least, have been given an idea of what the potential impact of the repair on his sailing season could be. Armed with that knowledge he, the dealer, and Catalina could arrange something that is best for Martin's schedule. This would be especially useful if Martin has to arrange to take the boat back to the dealer to have the work done (which seems to be the case for most warranty work)

Why should Martin have to call Catalina directly to get a fix? Do you call GM or Ford for fixing a problem with a new car... I would think not ( or maybe you do) You start with the dealer first then escalate if they are not responding.

Edited by - on

srf
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Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 13:22:47

Hey Martin:

I finally got my 2008 C-250 in the water with the Honda 9.9 Power Tilt. Thanks for all your advice and help. All is very well. I'm going to check the issues you have outlined and let you know what I find. I can tell you I have not seen any red tape. I am very happy with the power tilt which for me was a necesstiy. Can you and perhaps others here tell me if it is acceptable to remove the reefing lines if you do not plan to use them? Thank you.

Steven

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 13:30:29

Steven, removing your reefing lines is like wearing a helmet on a motorcycle, you'll maybe never need it, but if you do, you might not have time to put it on. I assume you needed the power tilt due to physical limitations of some kind. Those same issues would be a great reason to leave the jiffy reefing system in place. It is the least labor intensive way to reef your mainsail in the event you find yourself in an unexpected blow. Weather forcasters are great but, they're not yet perfect.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 13:31:46

My advice is to not remove the reefing lines. You will need to reef in strong winds. It is both a performance and a safety issue.

Edited by - on

srf
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Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 19:55:43

John & Randy, nuff said - I will not remove the reef lines. I thought it would clean up the rigging and simplify things for me but I will leave them in place. I had back surgery in 2000 so I like to limit my lifting and straining as much as possible. Thanks for your help.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 08/20/2008 : 23:24:08

Martin,

I have no experience with buying a new Catalina but going back to 1980, I bought a brand new ODay 23. I recall the dealer going over some of the features, etc of the new boat with me sort of like the brief introduction one may get when buying a new car. Not much more than that. He rigged the boat and launched it for us across from his store into the Port Jefferson Harbor (Long Island Sound). We then took our first journey, about 25 miles down to our marina located in Huntington Harbor. I do not recall any deficiencies and did not have to contact ODay or the dealer for any assistance. I had the boat for 5 great years and was completely satisfied. But then relocated to Virginia when I changed jobs and the timing was not ideal to relocate the boat for various reasons. So I sold it.

Edited by - on

Dkn420
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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2008 : 21:30:01

Did you buy from the dealer at Tahoe Keys Marina? If you did good luck, I had horrible problems with my new boat, #727, that was purchased and commissioned by those folks. I finally had to get an attorney involved and deal with Catalina directly. Good luck!

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 08/22/2008 : 10:28:07

By reefing lines do you mean the little ropes in the diamond shaped patches or do you mean the lines that actually pull the reef in? Yes you can toss the former, no do not toss the later.

Edited by - on

stampeder
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Response Posted - 08/25/2008 : 20:51:41

http://www.boatersexchange.com/

Paul - do you know if choosing this name was conscious decision or just one of those things that happens when an idea hits paper?

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 08/26/2008 : 08:12:16

Mike, to my knowledge, Jerry from BoatersExchange used to be an IT guy in the DotCom bust up on the west coast, seems he got out of it in time and exchanged his IT position to a boaters. Boaters Exchange ! (unless anyone knows otherwise

)

I know that he would be very happy for us to exhange JD for a bigger boat from his dealership

And Joint Decision got her name because we couldn't agree on a name, so I told the admiral that I don't care what the name is as long as it's a joint decision! It stuck.

Hail us as Joint Decision on 16 and we'll reply as 'JayDee' to keep it short!
The truck was a Joint Decision.
And it looks likely that this weekend we may make a joint decision to cancel our 5 day cruise as hurricane gustaf threatens.. but we'll keep options open for as long as possible.

Paul

Edited by - on

mhartong
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Response Posted - 08/26/2008 : 08:40:25

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That seems to common desire of brokers

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 08/26/2008 : 15:05:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 And Joint Decision got her name because we couldn't agree on a name, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

"Let's see, Acapulco Gold or Panama Red? Sometimes joint decisions are tough to make!"

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2008 : 15:17:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Paul - do you know if choosing this name was conscious decision or just one of those things that happens when an idea hits paper?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'd be willing to bet they never even noticed until it was too late... Wonder if there are any Swedish Maritime clinics looking for the URL?

Edited by - delliottg on 08/26/2008 16:32:17

stampeder
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Response Posted - 08/26/2008 : 15:20:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I know that he would be very happy for us to exhange JD for a bigger boat from his dealership <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I had my boat less than six months, when the broker I bought her from called me for the first time telling me about a 'great deal'.

Brokers don't need to know that much about boats, they only need to know that boaters succumb to twofootitis as easily as ordinary folks catch colds.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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Response Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:38:07

Martin, I'm very familiar with your situation regarding the trailer.

Is it a Road king Trailer?

We had the exact same problem you described. Our solution was to call Road king. They were very helpful.

I explained the problem and they offered to replace the sliding tube with one of thicker walls.

At the same time, I asked if they would consider making it longer too!

They delivered the new tube with some other trailers they were delivering nearby here.

We drove the trailer down to the drop off point (with JD aboard!) and exchanged out the tubes.

Our new tube reaches all the way to the front crossbeam when the hitch is just a couple of inches back from the main road hitch.

We still have the same issue though!
So our solution is to use the truck to pull the tube out and to push it back in. I chock the trailer wheels before pulling or pushing on the tube.

Agreed, it's a pain, but a minor one.

A possible solution would be greater tolerance between the tube and the rear most tube support, the tube probably won't bend enough to restrict sliding through the two support tubes.

FYI, we have not used the extension in a while because we changed the way we launch and retrieve.

When launching we use the power-boater trick. Get everything ready to launch, backup so the trailer is just in the water. Grab the lines from bow and stern, then Peggy backs down the rest of the ramp coming to an abrupt stop before the truck rear tires touch the water. The boat slides gracefully off the trailer. Of course, you have to know that the boat will be afloat before it exits the the back of the trailer.

Where are you launching from?

Hope that helps.

paul

Edited by - on

MartinJW
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241 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2008 : 12:45:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Martin, I'm very familiar with your situation regarding the trailer.

Is it a Road king Trailer?

We had the exact same problem you described. Our solution was to call Road king. They were very helpful.

I explained the problem and they offered to replace the sliding tube with one of thicker walls.

At the same time, I asked if they would consider making it longer too!

They delivered the new tube with some other trailers they were delivering nearby here.

We drove the trailer down to the drop off point (with JD aboard!) and exchanged out the tubes.

Our new tube reaches all the way to the front crossbeam when the hitch is just a couple of inches back from the main road hitch.

We still have the same issue though!
So our solution is to use the truck to pull the tube out and to push it back in. I chock the trailer wheels before pulling or pushing on the tube.

Agreed, it's a pain, but a minor one.

A possible solution would be greater tolerance between the tube and the rear most tube support, the tube probably won't bend enough to restrict sliding through the two support tubes.

FYI, we have not used the extension in a while because we changed the way we launch and retrieve.

When launching we use the power-boater trick. Get everything ready to launch, backup so the trailer is just in the water. Grab the lines from bow and stern, then Peggy backs down the rest of the ramp coming to an abrupt stop before the truck rear tires touch the water. The boat slides gracefully off the trailer. Of course, you have to know that the boat will be afloat before it exits the the back of the trailer.

Where are you launching from?

Hope that helps.

paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

THANKS, Paul!

Yes, it is a Road King trailer. I'm going to call them this week.

I'm launching from a boat ramp in South Lake Tahoe which is, I think, pretty steep and well-paved.

I don't know if we'll be brave enough to do the "sudden-stop" launch method, but I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks again; I really appreciate your input.

Martin

Edited by - on

MartinJW
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USA
241 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2009 : 12:37:28

The trailer problem has returned this season, and, unfortunately, it's worse than last year.

The trailer tongue extension is hopelessly stuck; we had to push it back (to tow the boat) using the truck. Not a very good solution.

I called Road King Trailers, and they asked for me to send some pictures. I will, but I don't know what they'll be able to see, other than the tongue extension not quite back where it's supposed to be.

I'll keep everyone informed of the progress,
Martin

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2009 : 13:22:36

Martin, was the trailer extension issue never remedied from last year? How about your other issues?
Steve A

Edited by - on

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