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jlannutti
Navigator

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USA
102 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/05/2007 : 07:15:42

I've been reading about Arlyn's Soft-Link. I intend to make this modification as backing into my slip is quite an adventure. The slip is narrow and the prevailing wind is at 90 deg. With the high freeboard in the 250 a coordinated turn requiring proper anticipation of the bow blowing across, prayer, meditation, good karma, and incredibly good luck, are all required to prevent an ugly docking with lots of witnesses.
The instructions on Arlyn's site do not address how to connect the 3/16" line and the bungee to the port and starboard corners of the engine. Do holes have to be drilled? I have a '98 9.9 Honda that was, I believe, purchased new with the boat. It was well kept and in good condition but for some scratches on the cowl.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2007 : 11:13:01

Joe, I'll be posting pics of my 'tough-link' this afternoon.
Meanwhile, I have the tothatsu 9.8 and I connected the bungee to the air inlet stiffening stbd sude post at the back of the engine and the line to the port post.

This weekend, I drilled a hole in the aft corner of the engine where the cover meets the engine platform.

The only issues we had with the soft link were a) it allowed the engine to turn towards the rudder and I have scars in the rudder to prove it. b) the steering of the engine did not match the rudder, this is due to the distance from the pintel to the rudder side of the line and the distance from the engine rotatation point to the engine side of the line. In short the engine would rotate just a few degeres compared the the full movement of the rudder.

My 'tough-link' takes care of both those issues. BUT we have not put it in the water with the new link yet!!! Sea trials will be this weekend at the B.E.E.R. Cruise (we load up the boat this afternoon Yahoooooly!)

Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2007 : 12:04:05

Paul, I am looking forward to seeing the "Tough Link" setup! I don't do bungee.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/05/2007 12:15:03

jlannutti
Navigator

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USA
102 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2007 : 12:34:18

Paul,
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'll wait to see what your tough link looks like before proceeding. I've already dome some monor rudder scarring while trying to steer the rudder with one hand, the engine with the other, and shifting to forward to slow myself down with the other...oh hell, that won't work. This is why I need help!

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2007 : 19:24:51

Joe, if you decide on the soft link... the connections have to be figured out to suit the motor. On my Honda 8 pre 2001, I removed the cowl and found a drain hole in one of the aft corners that worked well to connect a bungee hook. On the other corner, I drilled an identical hole to feed the small line through and simply tied a stopper knot.

On the 2001 Honda 8, the bungee and line sections are both fastened to the hatch bail in the middle of the aft end of the motor.

Yes, as my notes on the soft link suggest, to get equal turn ratio, a hookup extension to the rudder may be needed to obtain hookup points near the same distance aft of the transom.

Getting the motor into the rudder must be an issue possible with the 3rd generation rudder... I can see where that wouldn't be desirable. I would think however that the soft link would do a lot more to stop that from happening than trying to steer the outboard manually.

A hard link will work if one has a motor that will steer fully in both directions and be easy to connect/disconnect when tilting the motor forward or for motoring or motor sailing where a center position of the motor is needed. Keep in mind that motor steering at cruising speed is not desirable as it makes the helm far to sensitive and leads to constant over steering.

If I recall correctly a couple of 250 owners expressed that they intended to try the EZ Steer hard link... but no reports on how it worked were offered.

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2007 : 23:15:05

Here's my first attempt at a 'tough link'

Basically it's a piece of aluminum tube cut to length. Inserted into each end is a piece of a solid rubber bungee. The bungee was folded over and inserted into the tube with a bit of dishliquid as a lubricant. Then I drilled one side and into the rubber in order to plant a pop rivet.

The tube is screwed (with washers on either side) to the wooden rudder extension arm so that the tube can be laid along the extension arm when disconnected from the engine.

The extension arm is secured to the rudder using a longer bolt, washer and nylock nut. It has a cutout to allow the arm to swing down over the 2nd bolt.

On the engine side, I drilled a hole in the flange aft of the cowling on the engine port side.

The engine side of the link is just secured with a line running through that hole, then to the front of the engine. I put a nut and bold through one of the holes in the engine carrying handle so that it forms a peg. The line has a loop that hooks over the peg: in that position the link is pretty firmly attached to the engine. If I let the line go, the link is sloppy, and I can raise the engine. I can also raise the arm if needed.

Here's the pics.
<center>

Tough link in the up position showing the attachment bolts.

Tough link in the down position.

View from the helm.

</center>

Paul

Edited by - on

megrier
1st Mate

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USA
55 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2007 : 16:29:45

I have an ez steer that works well also on my C-25

http://www.ezsteer.com/index.htm

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2007 : 17:00:20

Paul,
I like the look of the "tough link". I'd been thinking along the same general lines, but hadn't thought of the bungee, or using a tube. I was planning a turnbuckle or adjustment screw on the rudder attachment so you could tune the turning radii of the rudder & outboard together. Since our outboards produce some torque due to their offset, another adjustment screw on the transverse rod (tube in your version) would let you adjust the "toe in" between the rudder & outboard, sort of like a trim tab on an airplane. I'm probably over engineering it, but hey, what's AutoCAD for?

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2007 : 18:57:14

Hey Paul,

Your engine is mounted directly on the hull right?

You think that just 1 bolt on that rudder will be enough? Looks like you got only about 1 inch in front of the bolt to the edge of the wood. It just seems that it's gonna tear away pretty easy, unless there's something else I'm not seeing?

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 06/08/2007 : 19:52:02

I have the EZ link and will be testing it out in the next couple of weeks. See photos below for attachemenst

the bar is level when the rudder is down fully

one last photo of my recent installation of the Edson steering adjustment. Sure makes tightening up the cables a lot easier.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 17:30:53

OK, I like hardware - actually I LOVE hardware - and these connections are intriguing. But here is my issue. I have found that the place I need steering control most is at the dock and, since I already have my hand on the OB for F/R and throttle, I find it best just to grab the OB cowl and turn the engine that way. I'm not seeing how steering with the wheel would help all that much - or does it??

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 18:54:24

Randy,

In your scenario your rudder would be up? My rudder is not the kick up model. I know you have the same engine as I do and configured it the same way as I. I cannot really steer the engine with the OB cowl, I actually have to steer it by moving the OB head. It's very awkward and difficult to maneuver at the marina. Heading in what I end up doing is to get a little momentum, then kick the engine in neutral and steer with my rudder. Arriving at a 45 degree angle I parallel park pushing the tiller hard towards the dock at the very last moment (so Bow first at 45 degrees, then just about when it touches, slide the stern to the dock.

Nonetheless its not very responsive since I need a little forward momentum so my rudder starts having effect. Heading out the last time at a Marina, my bow took some wind which moved it port. I had no more than 15 feet to port of free space (long and narrow). Had to quickly start the engine, and move the engine (by the head) to steer clear. Zig-zagged a little and finally got enough momentum to start steering. (I nearly knocked into some boats).

I need this EZ Link, or make myself one.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 06/11/2007 18:59:46

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 19:03:46

Jay,

How much is the EZ Link? Is it the same as the EZ Steer?

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 21:23:34

Randy... it is really an issue of brain and body overload. Docking can be an intensive action with adverse consequences ranging from embarrassment to damaging someone's boat or your own.

There are several issues at play... observation of what is happening and reaction, controlling the speed of the outboard, controlling the shift lever, etc. What is not needed is an extra mental or physical step or distraction that can overload and reduce the capabilities.

Taking just one issue out of the equation can be the difference between safety and liability and that is what linked steering does. When the motor needs steered in conjunction with the rudder, to manually do that as a separate step eats up mental and physical resources.

Much better is to link the two where the skipper is free from that step to observe and properly control the helm with only one helming device.

Very often to rotate the motor head manually, it causes a serious distraction of observation of all that is going on around the boat.

Personally I love bungee... but we all have our likes and dislikes. Simply find another way... but do yourself a favor and link em while docking.

As I've said in the past, I sought another way beside a hard link because of the motor restriction of a limited turn in one direction and the bungee turned out to be a very simple way to deal with that.

It is very possible that springs inside a tube and having a sliding inner shaft would accomplish the same thing... that started to get more complicated when I saw a simple way to do it. No doubt there are others.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 23:52:21

I tried the EZ Steer, but because I am using the outboard bracket, the geometry is all wrong. Over the first year of owning the boat, I eventually worked out how to use the motor and tiller separately. I steer with the tiller almost all the time, and move the motor the few times I need a little extra help.

The best thing for me has just been time on the water.

I may get around to trying a soft-link eventually (I still have the EZ steer brackets on my rudder and motor, so it would be easy), but the problem is not as important to me as it once was.

FWIW.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2007 : 23:53:36

Arlyn, thanks for the explanation. Believe me I know what docking overload can be like!! Let me explain how we dock. Our slip runs North-South and we dock bow first facing South. The winds are usually out of the North or West. After our launch-day docking fiasco we asked for, and got, a slip near the end of the dock so we no longer have to do a hard 90 degree turn into the slip, more of a 30 degree turn to port. I motor in at idle which translates to 1.1 - 1.3 MPH and steer with the wheel. About 15' from the slip I put the OB in neutral. The Admiral has a 4' boat hook with a special temporary spring line that I constructed (I will post photos). One end of the line is a loop on the winch and the other is a loop at the end of the boat hook. As the cockpit reaches the end of our slip finger she lays the loop down on a dock cleat. At that point I am done with the wheel and am at the OB and when she says "got it" I nudge the OB into Forward. If she says "missed it" then I put the OB into Reverse and give it gas. (She has never missed it!). At that point we then have a functional spring line and I use the OB to quietly bring the boat alongside the dock, all pretty much at idle. The Admiral steps off the boat and connects the stern, bow, and permanent spring lines. We are done. No muss, no muscle, no jumping. All very calm and collected. We have come a long way!! This spring line setup is the key to docking. I thank the people on this forum who suggested it. I will post a photo of my special spring line (The Nauti Duck Dock-A-Matic) which almost guarantees that the crew hits the cleat. After that it is a piece of cake. We have used this setup in 15-20 knot winds just fine. The spring line is a God send and at the docking moment I find it more important to be at the OB, ready to hit F or R, than holding the wheel.

Steve, I use the motor to leave the slip. I back out of the slip and continue motoring backwards to open water. All steering is done using the OB. By "cowl" I mean the cover that goes on top of the OB. I grab the handhold towards the back of the cowl (what you use to pull on when tilting) to steer. Clearly I benefit by having moved to near the end of the dock where a little turn means I can continue on to clear water. I don't have to do a 90 degree turn. Maybe I wont feel so smug when we visit a marina on a cruise and they assign us a slip on a narrow dock area surrounded by stinkpots!

Also I do not have a swing up rudder. I have never encountered a situation where the OB and the rudder hit eachother.

Sounds like I have a similar experience as Kevin. Mostly the wheel and then to the OB for final tweaking. I realize too, though, that when many people agree on something then it probably has value. Thus my interest in linking the wheel and OB and the EZ steer. Did I mention that I love hardware??

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/12/2007 00:11:26

Mike013
1st Mate

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USA
64 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2007 : 00:47:24

Randy,

I know exactly how you feel. My first slip faced southwest with the wind usually out of the northwest. Backing out of the slip was always exciting because I had to do a sharp ninety-degree turn to avoid the dock and boats behind my slip. As soon as “Ariel” cleared the slip, the bow wanted to turn to port and the channel out of the marina was to starboard. I tried prop walk but there didn’t seem to be enough room to complete the maneuver. Hand walking “Ariel” out of the slip and pointing her in the right direction worked, but there isn’t always dock help available. Fortunately my marina was able to move me further down the dock to an area that has no dock or slips behind me. Backing out is still colorful but at least I won’t smack into anything.

However, I came to the conclusion this weekend, that the best way for me to leave the dock, was to motor backwards to open water and then either prop walk the bow to starboard or just do a reverse 270-degree turn until the bow is pointed where I want it to be. It may not be the most seamanlike departure, but it is the least likely to add trauma to drama.

Entering the slip is fairly easy. Like you, the open area allows me to motor in slow at about a 30-degree angle. Once the slip is definitely made, I place the OB in neutral and coast in. As the bow enters the slip, I move the OB to reverse, at idle, and usually come to a full stop before the bow reaches the far end of the slip. I can then lean over and secure the rear starboard dock line.

I’m glad you mentioned your technique about motoring in reverse to open water. I know now that I am not alone.

Edited by - on

KD4AO
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2007 : 07:52:00

Randy you have the right answer using the Spring line for first attachment to the dock. The further forward it is attached to the boat, the more it will swing the stern in. Back several years ago I bought a device from West Marine that attached to the end of a boat hook. It had 2 rather springy SS wires that extended out about 18 inches in a "Y" shape. You could lay a large loop of line across it and drop it easily over a piling. My wife mastered it easily and it ended the side show at docking time. I have looked recently but have not seen this device in stores. It may still be available but not sure where. This was essential for us because there were no cleats on the dock. Bob

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2007 : 11:37:25

Mike - if we weren't supposed to go backwards why did they put a Reverse on the motor??

Bob - That device sounds good. I'll post a picture of what I came up with. We actually bought a nice cleat that mounts on the jib sheet track so we could experiment with where to end the spring line. So far, however, the winch is serving as a well balanced point.

For any of you having docking problems I have one word - Spring Line.

Edited by - on

528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2007 : 23:00:03

I agree with Arlyn, link'em. I used a bungee on both sides of the motor. When the correct length creates the correct tension, the amount of motor travel is proportional and always able to go stop-to-stop. I've been using it for 4 years and always "step" off the boat. There are many times that single handing means docking solo also.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2007 : 19:35:59

With the EZ-Steer can you raise only the engine and keep tilling easily enough?

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2007 : 20:11:34

I found an interesting site that sell aluminum, zinc or stainless steel ball joints and rods. From the site it seems that I need about $30 worth of parts.

Should I go with Aluminium, Zinc, Chrome plated or Stainless? They have them all!

http://www.midwestcontrol.com

Here are the parts I'm thinking of going with (Lengths and sizes to be determined):

Ball Joint, Stainless (Series: SSE)
Note the neoprene dust shield

Also have a Quick Disconnect model that could be interesting to disconnect my rudder for easier tillering and when taking the rudder off for trailering:
Ball Joint, Quick Disconnect, Stainless (Series: SQI)

And the rods (either male or female)
Stainless Steel Rod (Series: SSR)

The rest I can buy at Home depot (to attach to the motor and rudder).

Edited by - on

Bob Jack
1st Mate

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USA
58 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2007 : 21:32:44

[imce8561e50d86bb00000020600AaN2LFs1aNmPAg][/img]
Arlyn's Soft Link...works great....put it together in a couple hours today.... cost me about $15.00 at the hardware store.
Thank's Arlyn,
Bob Jack

Edited by - on

Bob Jack
1st Mate

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USA
58 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2007 : 21:35:49

Sorry...there was spose to be a picture...guess I've got a ways to go (technologically speaking)
Bob Jack

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2007 : 22:05:41

Update on the tough link.

(mostly) it worked great.

Raising the motor was easy, the tough link had enough flex in it so that when the motor (mounted on the transom) is raised, the wooden beam on the rudder would rise up and allow complete freedom of movement of the rudder.

During forwards movement under power, the link worked great! The engine closely followed the angle of the rudder and provided excellent steering.

During reverse, it worked but with a minor (ok, major) defect. the engine when steering in reverse to port (engine tiller to stbd) the engine would kick over to port more than the desired amount due to the flex in the link. The kick would be such that the engine would end up harder to port than the rudder and would require manually redirecting it (I just put my foot on the cowling and forced it around).

Not sure, but I think my flex links are toooo flexible. I like the stainless links posted above.

Without any doubt, using it during forward movements was a major improvement. The issue in reverse was the same (but to lesser extent) as the soft link. Using the soft link we have hit the rudder with the rotating prop twice, scarring the rudder trailing edge.

Ready to modify to VII of the tough link.

Paul

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2007 : 23:10:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Should I go with Aluminium, Zinc, Chrome plated or Stainless? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you kidding me??? STAINLESS STEEL!!!

Edited by - on

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