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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

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djridgway
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/11/2005 : 21:59:51

i am trying to decide between a 9.8 and 15 hp outboard and the nissan and tohatsu.. for my new 250 wing keel ** any opinions out there??

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2005 : 22:18:40

The 9.8... 15hp is not only overkill but its extra weight and likely poorer fuel economy are detriments.

An extra long shaft in the 8-9.9 range will do the job very effectively.

Edited by - on

Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2005 : 22:47:04

I ended up with a Honda, but it seems like when I was shopping, I was told the Nissan was a rebranded Tohatsu. If so, you may want to let price be your guide in selecting between those two brands.

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lcogge01
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2005 : 23:19:18

The Tohatsu 9.8 20" 4 stroke only weights 81.5lbs (http://www.tohatsu-outboards.com/tohatsu-9-8-hp-4-stroke.htm). That's almost 20lbs less than my 2 stroke Johnson Sailmaster 8hp. Getting rid of that extra weight while gaining some hp, not mixing the gas/oil, less noise and smoke seems like a pretty good deal. I'd like to hear from anyone who has this motor if all of this is really as good as it seems. Thanks!

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2005 : 23:48:14

I see that I was remiss in pointing out that 15 hp motors are somewhat rare in the XLS (extra long shaft) and the wing keel definately needs an xls whereas a water ballast can live fine with a long shaft unless its sailed in more demanding conditions. Remember, there is a 3-4 inch difference between the water ballast water line and the wing... and with the wing the higher... a long shaft is simply not suitable on it.

Edited by - on

Wayne Wallace
1st Mate

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USA
28 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2005 : 20:55:49

I have the Tohastu 9.8, electric start, extra long shaft and the throttle arm. It weighs 93 lbs and is a great motor. The fuel economy is excellent and moves the boat very well.

The only issue is that if you want to turn the engin while backing up or tilt and lock the motor out of the water it can be very tight fit and you will need to experiment with the position on the transom. The remote throttle control would help with that problem.

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2005 : 11:21:45

I have a 15 hp Honda w/remote controls to wheel helm and power tilt. The boat was set up this way when I purchased it. Although it adds extra weight at the stern (compensated with added sand in bow) it is a great set up. It is a XL shaft with a wing keel. No problems to date with prop coming out of the water.

Very smooth motor and it is nice to have the power trim for motor handling and the extra hp when forced to motor into the tides.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2005 : 16:02:59

Wil, I can appreciate that for some, power tilt could be desirable for various reasons but I think it is a feature possibly restricted to the Yamaha and also available on their 8 or 9.9 hp.

When dealing with tides, the limiting factor is the hull speed of the boat which means that if an 8 hp has no problem driving the boat to hull speed, then it will have equal ability in coping with tides as does the 15.

Headwinds do factor in however and I'm not sure how much advantage a 15 might have over an 8-9.9 in very strong headwinds as I've found it generally necessary to slow the boat to around 3.5 knots to avoid launching off waves and an 8 will do that in a strong wind at about a quarter throttle.

The one exception is if one runs passes with strong tides along with very strong headwinds. For example, if a 5 knot current is running in a pass, that leaves only 1.2 knots of progress possible with either motor. If adding a 20 knot headwind with a 1.2 knot speed loss on an 8 but only half that on a 15, then the pass would be impossible to negotiate with the 8hp. Here, more reserve would be valuable to provide a .6 knot passage thru the pass, but needed because of headwinds.... not tides. This is true because if the pass suffered 6.3 knot currents... neither an 8 or 15 would negotiate.

Generally I find that an 8 hp drives to 5.2 knots at less than half throttle but the last knot to 6.2 takes a good part of the remaining reserves of an 8hp.

My point in coming back atcha... for those not dealing with tidal passes with combined headwinds... the increased cost difference between an 8 and 15 would provide little or no benefit.

Edited by - on

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2005 : 11:11:07

Well, I haven't contributed much lately but I'll jump in here. For those of you close to sea level I'm sure that your 8hp motors work just fine but when you start sailing at 10,000ft and have to motor through a thunderstorm to get to a safe harbor, 15hp is very welcome. Not only do headwinds cause a problem but the steep chop and waves up to 4ft, or more, could bring even our original Yamaha 9.9hp to a stop given the loss of power due to altitude.

My wife thinks that the Yamaha being stolen from our storage yard was the best thing that ever happened to her. I found a great deal on a 15hp Honda 4stroke with electric start and power tilt/trim and have never looked back. With a weight of just 131 lbs the extra weight on the stern, compared to your approx 100 lb 8hp motors, is not as significant as a full holding tank after a week on the lake. Going from a manual start engine to the electric with a 12amp alternator means that if I just spend a couple of hours fishing, dragging a line around the lake, every day, I never again have to worry about running out of battery, even when my wife watches a movie on her LCD TV every evening. (In fact, I recently put a stereo in the boat and haven't been able to run the battery dead in 4days with 2+hr movies every evening and the stereo running continuously when we're awake.) And, unlike most of the electric start motors I have seen out there, the Honda has an actual pull start in addition to the electric and the last ditch option of wrapping a line around the flywheel.

Another consideration for us lake sailors, especially when there are lots of powerboats around, is the ability to accelerate quickly to try to avoid hazards and idiots. Unlike worrying about hull speed and motoring long distances, when a thunderstorm comes up and there are rocks all around, the ability to get moving quickly is the biggest concern. While, even with a low pitch, 4 blad prop I never use more than 2/3 throttle to get to hull speed in normal conditions, having the power to get out of the stupid situations I often put us in is a big plus.

Admitted, I am not a racer, just someone who likes to spend several days on the water fishing and sailing and relaxing, but there are definitely other concerns than hull speed when considering power. I notice that most of the respondents on this thread are at lower altitudes but for those of us who have to deal with thin air, more power counts for a lot.

Keith Hamburger
Colorado Springs, CO

Edited by - on

gop711
1st Mate

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Armenia
83 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2005 : 13:49:20

I was just wondering. If you motor weights 131 lbs and if you ever trailered it, would you take the motor off? I have a C22 and they recomend the motor to be removed when trailering. Any thoughts?

I am hoping to move up to a C25 shortly, that is the reason for the question.

Thanks
Greg

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2005 : 14:00:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gop711
 I was just wondering. If you motor weights 131 lbs and if you ever trailered it, would you take the motor off? I have a C22 and they recomend the motor to be removed when trailering. Any thoughts?

I am hoping to move up to a C25 shortly, that is the reason for the question.

Thanks
Greg
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hi Greg,

I take my outboard off to trailer, but plenty of C-25 owners leave the outboard on, and they've had no problems. The trick is to make sure you've secured the outboard to cleats, stanchions, or something solid so that the outboard doesn't move around and damage the motor mount, or fall off completely (I always have visions of the outboard falling off and "flying formation" with me down the highway

... that's why I prefer to take mine off).

Another reason for taking it off ... you might lose the cowling ... right, Derek?

Good luck in your search for a C-25, and welcome to the group!

Edited by - on

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2005 : 15:29:24

I have never taken my motor off and trailer my boat everywhere. The well on the C250 seems to hold the motor just fine and, since the old one was stolen, I have through-bolted the new motor on. To come off it would have to take a significant portion of the transom with it.

So far this year I have probably trailered the boat 2000+ miles. Last year I'm sure it was over 5000 miles and I don't think I've gone less than 3000 miles per season since I got it six seasons ago. The closest sailing lake to me is about a 100 mile round trip and I usually go further to sail.

Keith Hamburger

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2005 : 18:32:29

Arlyn
I ran the fuel test on my 2004 Honda 8 Hp power thruster engine.
The set up is a 2004 C250 WK #719 a 6 gal metal fuel tank.
I ran between 5 and 5.5 knots for 7 hours and the tank read empty so,I took a stick and measured about 1-1/2 inchhes of fuel left in tank.
Alot better gas mileage then I thought I would get. It was in the ocean running inside passages, got the same fuel consumption on return.
paulj #719 WK

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2005 : 09:53:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I was just wondering. If you motor weights 131 lbs and if you ever trailered it, would you take the motor off? I have a C22 and they recomend the motor to be removed when trailering. Any thoughts?

I am hoping to move up to a C25 shortly, that is the reason for the question.

Thanks
Greg<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Greg the 250 motor mounts directly to the transom as opposed to a bracket. I only take my motor off for winter storage. I do trail the boat a fair amount and have never had a problem.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2005 : 06:40:01

Paul, your report shows a little less economy than I usually get. I can run 8 hrs and have about what you indicate in the tank. With the previous Honda 8 classic, I'd only use about 3.5 gal for 8 hrs at 5.2 knots. The Yamaha's are claimed to get better fuel economy.

Of course, headwind on a particular run will play a factor.

Edited by - on

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