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Sail Slug Problem

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Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/21/2004 : 13:27:59

This weekend it was blowing about 15 knots so we decided to go with a reefed main and no jib. Everything was fine until an accidental jibe. Fortunately, no one was hurt but the sail slug at the very top near the headboard let go. That caused all the other slugs to let go.

When I discussed the problem with the sailmaker today, he said that a sail should always have the top slug be metal. That would have eliminated the problem. The sail that came with the boat had the all the slugs as plastic. Does anyone have a metal slug as their top one on the sail provided by Catalina?

Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 13:44:24

nope.....but the more I read this story, and the ones where someone went overboard with their head bashed, the more I am determined to rig a preventer...

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 23:06:30

I replaced all of my plastic sail slugs (original) with nylon ones with ss reinforcement. Also put a small amount of silicon lub on them. No problems since.

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 23:08:07

I, too, am going to install a preventer. Does anybody have a good method of rigging one?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 23:19:17

How about a boom brake instead? Less chance for catastrophe caused rather than prevented by the preventer.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 00:05:43

How about a boom brake instead? - Frank

Hi Frank,

What's a boom brake? Do you have any photos of one?

Thanks!

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 10:57:53

If I type in the link this thread will go wide..... go to:

http://www.westmarine.com

And in the search enter item # 287170. Also in the catalog on page 1063. I agree with Frank that it's better technology, but it's also more $$....hey, that's life. (I'm sure you can get the thing a little cheaper elsewhere, haven't looked yet.) Both will prevent an accidental gybe.

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - Oscar on 06/22/2004 10:59:28

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 11:55:37

Thanks Oscar ... I'd never seen or heard of one of these before. It's pretty cool, but very expensive ($319.99). For others like myself who aren't familiar with a "boom brake," here's what it looks like, and what West Marine says about it:

Stay in control of every jibe and protect your rig with this simple, effective device. It works on the same principle as a line wrapped around a winch to control side-to-side boom movements. Under tension, it works like a preventer. Ease tension on the brake from the cockpit-controlled brake line, and the boom swings at a slow, controlled rate. The brake is also available with a becket, so the vang can be attached to the bottom of the brake. This only works if the brake is attached to the boom and the line run aft along the toerail.

- No need to go forward of the cockpit to set up or change over a preventer
- Prevents and dissipates the shock loads of accidental jibes
- Hardkote anodized machined marine grade aluminum
- The shackle mounts front or side for easy installation
- Manufacturer's 5-year warranty

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 13:32:50

A similar effect can be achieved by running a line from the boom to a block ahead of the point abeam the gooseneck at deck level, then back to the cockpit/side deck to a stopper. If the main backwinds you can run the line over an existing (jib?) winch, apply enough tension to unlock the stopper, and then pay it out running it around the drum of the winch. Another scenario is where you'd come back to the cabin top and use the halyard winches. Different boats different layouts, but with some puzzling I'm sure it can be rigged so that the end result is well below the price of a brake.

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - Oscar on 06/22/2004 13:36:20

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 17:02:17

A friend of mine rigged a preventer on a Catalina 32 by simply runnig a line from a bow cleat to the fitting on the boom that holds the mainsheet block. He swears it works very well. I am going to try that this weekend.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2004 : 19:44:50

The preventer we used on our C25 and now on the C250 is just two 50 foot 1/4" nylon ropes tied through the hole on the aft boom were the topping lift or the boom wire goes when not under sail on the C25 and the stainless attachment on the C250. Then ran outside the lifelines through the bow cleat and back inside the stanchions to the aft starboard and port cleat. Then tighten with the boom in the middle and let out about six feet. This allowed normal main operation when not sailing downwind. When downwind just let out one side an tighten the other. On the jibe you can controll the boom swing with the tighten one and once completed tighten up the other. It follows the KISS principle and is cheap. On the C250 with vang I tried moving the vang from the mast to the stanchion loop on the mid stanchions for awhile. It worked o'kay, but requires going forward and working under the boom to do it. I did not like the idea of a possible knock on the head so I went back to the old tried and true.

Edited by - frog0911 on 06/22/2004 19:46:44

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2004 : 00:37:56

Hey Buzz, sorry I did not check back on this thread, thank O for providing the brake info. They were fairly new in the mid 80's. I am of the school that a preventer is more dangerous than the gybe. I like the brake idea.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2004 : 09:18:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I am of the school that a preventer is more dangerous than the gybe.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Can you expound on that?

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2004 : 09:45:21

We all sail in our own circumstances, as a lake sailor an accidental gybe is very uncommon. I can well imagine that on open water, waves (both natural and traffic generated) can move your boat suddenly such that the main can get back-winded going downwind. On an inland lake you must be very careless to get back-winded. Regardless of the setting or the cause, the preventer has your boom locked in an immobile position. This assumes one has not rigged some nontraditional preventer. (In my mind a traditional preventer is a line made off from a boom to a stanchion base or the like.) The idea of being spun on my keel and very probably at near horizontal is more intimidating than the prospect of my boom taking out an aft leeward shroud. I see personal injury to be more likely as a result of the spin (since everyone on the boat will be tossed) than an ill placed crew member during a gybe. If conditions are such that you may accidentally gybe why would you have crew in position of jeopardy? If an accidental gybe is the result of complete oblivion on a fair weather day than it is doubtful anyone will get hurt.
By the way, yes I have taken a boom to the head, fortunately it was on a 16' daysailer and at a dock; everyone cheered!

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2004 : 16:34:32

Chick-a-pea is currently bare pole as I have removed the main and the jib for repairs. The main has three broken slugs, one at the peak. It is too hot and humid here in North Florida and the only wind seems to be during thunder storms when there is lots of lightning. I went through enough of that going to the Tall Ships. So now is right for down time. I want to install a Dutchman system on the main also. Sounds like a metal slug at the peak is what I need to look for.
The jib is shot along the leech and has always flapped violently no matter how I trimmed the sail. And I would like to have a 135. So I am going to see if it can be altered. ($$$)

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2004 : 07:26:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have taken a boom to the head<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Aaahhhh......

IMHO common wisdom on "bigger" water sailing is that a violent, uncontrolled, gybe can bring the rig down, or at least seriously damage the sail/hardware. Furthermore, staying out of the way of the boom is easier said than done, if it's out there for hours (days) at a time. The cost of taking a large boom with a large main on it on the head is not a laughing matter, it's very potentially fatal, not to mention the fact that going overboard in open water is a really bad idea too.....

I haven't heard of anyone NOT rigging a preventer out there. Now, having said all that, I agree with you that backwinding, and then
rounding up is not a pretty sight either. But remember, there's not a whole lot of force on the main right after it backwinds. (It's basically pointed into the wind) You still have speed, thus steering: a quick course correction will set it right again. It's when it starts coming across, fills and then picks up speed that the lethal weapon is created.

So a preventer with the provision of a controlled release, or the above discussed brake seems to be the way to go.

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2004 : 15:02:42

A preventer it shall be.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2004 : 16:11:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If I type in the link this thread will go wide<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oscar --

In the "Reply to Topic" page, change the "Format Mode" (2nd from top line) to "Prompt". Then 2 steps are needed to post a hyperlink; the first is giving the link any name you want (e.g. a short word or two which actually will show up in the message underlined and in blue), the second is pasting or typing in the link's web address (e.g. a long address which won't appear in the message). For example, a link to this page can appear as [url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6919"]this page[/url].

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/24/2004 : 19:00:44

Re: Preventor -- When I know I'll be going downwind for a while, I just unhook the boomvang snapshackle from the ring at the base of the mast and re-hook it to the base of the stanchion. I'll leave just a bit slack so as to give a little warning to a backwinding event (which luckily doesn't happen too often), in which case the tiller (for turning) and preventer/vang line (for releasing) is close at hand to tame things quickly.

I once got slammed pretty good by the boom on a friend's C30 (tall rig). We were on a beam reach when the wind died suddenly and some severe side-to-side rolling from waves sent the boom around (till it hit my head). It wasn't a full wind-propelled jibe, but not pretty nonetheless.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2004 : 02:15:09

Thanks for the techno tip Richard, and re. your cranial incident on the C-30, you were on a beam reach and probably would not have rigged a preventer If you had one/ thought about it. A permanently installed brake would have helped, which leads to my next question: can one in fact rig it all the time, and would it interfere with coming about. Or does releasing the control line take care of that?

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2004 : 08:55:19

I believe the brake senses speed of movement and does not interfere with normal events; like a seat belt.

Edited by - on

mmodine
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2004 : 11:45:36

Our 250K came with a nylon/SS bail slug attached to the headboard. All the rest were nylon. Every time another one breaks it is replaced with a nylon/SS bail slug.

For a preventer, we replaced the mast boomvang attachment with a quick-release hook which is attached to the mast-raising baby stay rings on the reinforced lifeline poles on either side of the mast.

The quick release also provides an easy method of using the boom vang for a MOB hoist.

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2004 : 20:02:21

Thanks for your input. Like your setup.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 07:43:03

I broke the second from the bottom sail slug on my main this past weekend on my 1995 C250. Would appreciate it if someone could advise me on the continuation of sailing until fall with one slug broken. Also can this be changed on the boat? I realize the old one is stitched in, but are there newer ways of attachment? THANX in advance
"Bear" C250 WB #089.

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

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USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 15:59:51

I replaced all of my OE plastic sail slugs with 3/8" nylon/SS slugs. Lubricate the slugs with a silicone lube you can use the same stuff to lub the slide for the hatchway top. On my 250 the slugs were also sewn in except for the headsail one and the lowest one which was attached by means of a line. I used the same size line, cut the line to approximately the same length as the original straps, put a knot on each end and sealed the knots. Works beautifully and no problems. A Simple, cheap alternative to having them done otherwise.

Edited by - on

Keith D.
Navigator

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USA
233 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 23:04:45

I just cut or break the old slug out of the original sewn loop, which allows me to take the stitched part out of the second grommet. I then string a new slug on the old webbing (pushing the loop through the slug bail) and then bring the loop back through the second grommet and reattaching it to the webbing where the sail slug is with a plastic shackle (WM page 1084). This allows you to easily replace a slug at any time while sailing and ends up giving the sail about the same amount of leeway to the slug. The only required tool is a flat screwdriver for the plastic shackle. I have never had any problem with the plastic shackle breaking. I keep extra plastic shackles and slugs on board and change them any time I see one has poped.

Before and after picture.

Keith Umbreit C250 WB #8

Edited by - Keith D. on 07/08/2004 19:18:34

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