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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Mounting XAS clutches

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/06/2013 : 16:53:56

So I'm going to be installing 2 double XAS 612/2 Powerclutches on the cabin top but I'm not to sure about the placement. I have two cabin top winches but I'm not sure how far forward of the winches or aft end of the cabin top they should be. Is the cabin top fully cored in the placement area or are there voids that I don't want to drill into. If anybody could take a few measurements I would be very grateful.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2013 : 18:36:13

my cabin winches are about 3"-4" from the bulkhead and the clutches are about 12" from the winches, slightly offset to allow the line that needs a more powerful pull (halyards) to be in straight line to the winch and the lesser powerful line can have a slight angle to the winch, it's important to check on which side of the winch the line comes in before drilling!

Edited by - blanik on 12/06/2013 18:37:16

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2013 : 06:53:27

Mine are about 6" forward of the cabin top winches. Also, lined up with the proper side (Starboard side) of the winch. I centered between both lines from clutches to side of winch.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2013 : 08:06:56

This shows the placement on my Catalina 25:
http://alexandchristine.smugmug.com/Sailing/Lutra-April-2012/i-5XHfzVx

I'd suggest moving them about 2-3" farther forward (a little more distance between the winch and clutch) to get better alignment for the farthest outboard line. On that boat we ended up using the inboard position for jib halyard, middle position for main halyard, outboard for the asym spinnaker tack line.

I'd also suggest getting the Lewmar D1 instead of the Spinlock XAS if you haven't already bought a clutch. It is easier on lines, releases better under load, and is a little bit cheaper. The clutch in that photo is a XAS, but I used Lewmar D1 clutches on my new boat and prefer them.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2013 : 10:52:43

Alex hits on the issue, put them far enough forward so there is a fairlead to the starboard side of the winch for all lines that need the winch. XAS is my favorite clutch, make sure you get the right size for your line, the 6mm-12mm is large if you will use any 1/4" high-tech line with a hard cover, they will slip in a 6-12 since 1/4" is the smallest line spec-ed. I found 4-8 a better size for my line selections.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2013 : 08:28:28

Yes, with any clutch you do need to get the right size for your line size. The clutch manufacturer should have a nice diagram like this one that shows the holding by line size by clutch model:

That is for a Lewmar D1.

You can find the graph for the Spinlock XAS on page 2 of this PDF:
http://www.americanriggingsupply.com/Spinlock_XAS.pdf

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 07:20:51

I could have done a little better lining up the clutch with the line.

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redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 10:14:57

kinda a long reach...next time I'd do it about half that distance from the winch...

Edited by - redeye on 12/09/2013 10:23:31

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2013 : 18:26:44

I mounted my winches further forward

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2013 : 05:16:51

<>

Measured my winch location to hang the throw-able cushions by their straps over them as a cushion when you sit facing back.

Comfortable and ready to throw.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2013 : 06:22:55

re: redeye, that seems like an expensive "hook" for throw cushions.

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2013 : 10:48:33

<< that seems like an expensive "hook" for throw cushions. >>

The winches are for my halyards, and to use pulling someone up the mast, with the safety addition of the clutch.

The "Throw Cushions" are USCG required live preservers and need to be in one place, the same place, and easily located. In a man over board situation you want to find them and find them fast. This keeps them up top and ready.

anyhoo... that's what I do.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2013 : 18:48:08

I want to thank everyone for their input on the placement of the clutches. The photos really help. I learned lots from them. Also about lining them up to feed the line to the winches. The clutches should really help in line management verses trying to cleat multiple lines to those small cleats. Thanks everyone! Don't you just love new toys!

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2013 : 22:12:40

There are voids in the cabin top, I drilled the holes after a careful layout, then taped the undersides and filled the holes with thickened epoxy and re-drilled. This might be over kill but if you tighten the machine screws to much the cabin top will 'crunch'. It may be enough to just snug the screws down. I used 1/4" line. This is one of those improvements that is well worth the effort.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2013 : 07:59:21

Voids are one of the things I was wondering about, Also should the clutches be through bolted or can you screw them down. I would prefer to screw them down only for the reason that the screws wouldn't penetrate into the cabin like bolts would. Less head scratchers to cause injuries.If they positively need to be bolted then that is what they shall be.

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2013 : 08:30:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 ...I would prefer to screw them down only for the reason that the screws wouldn't penetrate into the cabin like bolts would. Less head scratchers to cause injuries...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Use cap nuts on the inside of the coach roof:

http://www.boltdepot.com/Cap_nuts_Stainless_steel_18-8.aspx

They do less damage to one's scalp (trust me - I've had opportunities to verify this). I've forgotten what length screws I used, but they projected out just enough for the cap nuts to cinch-down tight to the coach roof with single washers under them. Using wood screws would probably be a mistake; there can be a LOT of load on the fasteners and not a lot of purchase in the coach roof.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2013 : 10:17:29

You can't just screw them into the fiberglass, you need to through bolt it. Use acorn nuts at Lee suggested.

I'd also suggest making a backing plate for inside the boat, or at least using large fender washers to spread the load.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2013 : 13:16:59

I use washers and fender washers.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2013 : 12:28:32

And that part is a PIA.. the right length bolts.. or cut them and cap them. Acorn nuts

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2013 : 15:33:38

That is why everyone with a sailboat has a Dremel... or will.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2013 : 08:15:30

Just what I was thinking, PIA to get the length of the bolts just right. I guess the best route is to just get long bolts and cut them to length. Saves me the multiple trips to WM.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2013 : 13:44:51

Make sure you have a standard nut tightened to the washer. That nut will clean and align the cut threads as you back it off so you can put the acorn on.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2013 : 05:21:01

yepper ( long screws and cut ) and you might end up using the long screw to clamp on a small channellock pliers on the end of the screw to get the first nut tight and then cut the screw, especially in a place where you can't get to the topside and you are working alone. Then cutting off the part where you mangled the threads.

Also helps when you are using nuts with nylon lockwashers in them.

Edited by - redeye on 12/26/2013 05:42:59

MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2013 : 12:33:58

I fell in love with these things called barrel nuts. This is a picture of them holding my cabin top winch, but I used them on the XAS triple clutches I installed as well.

With our low head room this really eliminates all dings. Getting the bolt size right is important, but these have deeper barrels than a cap nut (acorn nut) so you have more wiggle room. I didn't have to cut bolts at all. I did, however, mount the parts temporarily, measure the length and then go order the right size. Sorry I couldn't tell you the length, never made a note. These are a little trickier to install as you need to drill a counter bore from below to accommodate the barrel of the nut. I suppose you could just drill a larger hole all the way through, but I didn't like the idea of having a lot of play in the holes around the screw shank.

You can buy them here
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1451

although there are lots of places that sell them. It's also nice that they have a really large diameter head with teeth underneath. This means no need for a lock washer or flat washer.

On another note, I grabbed a couple of zinc plated and galvanized open barrel nuts that are used for press-board furniture and put them on the shelf in the cabin of the boat just to see if they would be prone to corrosion. They are available at most hardware stores and are much cheaper. After a few years (fresh water environment) none show any signs of corrosion. The nice thing about them is
#1) They are open on the bottom so no risk of crevice corrosion
#2) They could be installed totally flush with the ceiling

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 12/26/2013 : 15:09:42

The Barrel nuts do make a clean professional look but
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Sorry I couldn't tell you the length<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The most important part.

Edited by - on

MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2013 : 16:47:18

The next time I am up at the boat I will unscrew one and check the length. I also have the XAS clutches so it should be applicable. I can't imagine there would be much difference in the headliner thickness from boat to boat.

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