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Windex Position

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BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/17/2013 : 21:00:10

My Windex got shifted slightly when we raised the mast, the options are:

A) Leave it as is and sail?
B) Drop the mast and fix it?
C) Climb the same 28-Foot ladder I did last year yo fix the halyard?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian & JoAnne Gleissner
Knot So Fast
1984 Catalina 25, SR/SK
Traditional Interior
Lake Candlewood, CT

Edited by - on

windseaker
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2013 : 21:35:39

Go up the mast on a bosun's chair

Edited by - windseaker on 09/17/2013 22:52:37

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2013 : 21:35:44

Shifted off vertical, or horizontal (meaning the "tacking index" arms are shifted)? If the latter, the wind vane should still show you the correct apparent wind... If the former, maybe not. (I didn't really use the tacking indexes, since variations in wind strength affect pointing.)

If it's off vertically, one simple alternative is to add a couple of vanes on your shrouds. I used the little plastic Wind-Tels that coil around the shrouds and stick out about 6" on each side. They were easier to look at than the mast-head, although probably not quite as accurate. (Yarn can also do the trick in a pinch, but I think these work better.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/17/2013 21:46:52

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2013 : 03:36:03

Yes and the "tacking indexes" are just "guidelines," unless you calibrated them to your exact tack angles, they might be wider or narrower than you can achieve.

By the way did same to mine when I raised in April... just was never worried enough about it to fix it. I calibrated it to my tack angle last year, and now that the bottom is faired, and new sails, new jib cars, and a bunch of other new stuff (and better rig tune)... I am way off.

If you are leaving in (besides me being jealous of you), you could dip the mast or do the bosuns... I hate heights, so dipping the mast would be my option.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2013 : 04:55:20

drawstrings from a garbage bag on the shrouds too. Shnool, how much did you gain on your tack angles?

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2013 : 06:09:09

I got probably 5 degrees each way which is substantial. I can point with most of our best sailors in our club now (there is one S2 7.9 that can sometimes knock me out by 2 or 3 degrees, but I think he's sacrificing speed to do it)... the B25 can outpoint me by 3 degrees, but he's also got another foot of keel, a narrower boat, a fractional rig, 3DL sails, and usually runs less headsail for a given wind (meaning can sheet tighter, so it's probably NOT a fair comparison).

Keep in mind, I was running with 30 yo sails (main and genoa), and a bottom (well look at the gallery) that was pathetic at best. Even with that I only gained about 3 degrees, but when I tuned the rig (per EPsails guidelines) I gained the last 2 degrees.

I have to say even with my 30yo 155 genoa (which still has decent shape mind you), my angles upwind aren't horrible.. The Capri 25 is notoriously poor upwind on angles(due mostly to the wide foredeck). The average modern fractional rig SHOULD be able to outpoint me, and they can given good sails, good rig, and good sailor. But I am close enough, that I can fake out a competitor now, and make them THINK I can outpoint them, by feathering and going through a trim/ease cycle upwind. With our lake the winds are rarely steady enough to have to do this for more than a few minutes, but it's usually enough to fake out a competitor that's watching me trying to match me, rather than sailing their own boat (you'd be surprised how many try this).

NUMBER 1 BEST THING for upwind performance? A properly shaped keel. My keel meets class minimums (which is likely why I dominate downwind beyond that massive spinnaker), I suspect a slightly fatter keel might provide some gains upwind, but at the cost of more drag too (not sure that helps much). I think I got lucky honestly... the original owner of the boat obviously went through great pains to shape the keel to the early OD class specs. Given how the boat was decked out (headfoil2, MORC measurements, 130, 155, 2 mains, and max class Spinnaker - all original)... I gather the original buyer was a pretty serious racer, which is why the keel shape was so close (it was scary how close it was, almost like someone meant to do it or something - ha - I saw the fairing compound so I know it was intentional).

The 2nd best thing... were the sails... EP does a nice job with their sails, and can give you all the tips you'll need to get best performance out of them. I think some kudos there goes to the WYC folks though (who have worked with Harry at EP to tweak the design), and sail these boats boat for boat, and have worked out the best way to make hay with these things.

Edited by - shnool on 09/18/2013 06:10:06

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2013 : 07:31:14

A Windex is commonly used as an aid, to help you find the boat's "groove" and to keep it in the groove when sailing closehauled, but there are other ways you can find the groove without using a Windex. You can look, for example, at telltales on the sails, or woolies tied to the shrouds.

But, a Windex has another use which is commonly ignored. When you tack the boat, a Windex tells you when to <u>stop</u> the turn. If you turn too far, then the boat loses more speed, it loses ground to windward, the helmsman has to turn the boat a second time, to bring it up onto the wind, and, when you turn the boat too far, the sail loads up, and, in a strong wind, the jib tailer has to use the winch handle to grind the sail in to closehauled. All of that makes for a very inefficient tack.

When you tack the boat, if you'll glance at the Windex after the bow has crossed the eye of the wind, the Windex will tell you when to bring the tiller back to center and <u>stop</u> turning the boat. When the Windex feather is just inside the index, I stop the turn momentarily. At that point, the sails would be pinching, if they were trimmed. By pausing briefly at that point, you enable the jib tailer to take in almost all the slack in the jibsheet without having to use the winch handle. When that's done, then you can put the helm down just enough to load the sail and get it driving. If the helmsman and jib tailer have worked in coordination, the boat will come out of the tack with the sails trimmed slightly fuller than closehauled. That fullness will be just about right to help the boat accelerate out of the tack and up to speed. As the boat accelerates, the tailer should gradually trim in the jib to it's most efficient closehauled position. As the sail is trimmed in, the helmsman will feel it in the tiller, and he should adjust his steering accordingly.

If your tailer can bring the sheet in quickly enough, the helmsman might not have to pause the turn briefly, as I described, but the helmsman should coordinate the turning of the boat with the tailer, giving him as much time as he needs to get it done.

As John said, "tacking indexes are just guidelines," and, if you know they aren't correctly aligned, you can make a quick mental calculation to adjust for it, but when you're racing, you have so many things to think about, especially during a tack, that making that unnecessary calculation can be distracting, so I would round up 3-4 friends on the dock and ask them to help take down the mast, and adjust the Windex. It doesn't take that long to do.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2013 : 10:49:49

Steve is exactly right, and I HAVE been doing that calculation in my head because I've been to lazy to lower the mast to fix it. I have the tabs wider now than my tacking angle. My thought process is always to tack past my maximum point, though, power up, then pinch. I've gotten so many people who thought they had me when I've cracked off a bit just after a tack to get my speed, then as my speed has come up, I've come up, and been up further than my fellow sailors (and usually ahead as well).

On another thread on that Sailing Anachronism website (or whatever)... someone once said another way to judge pinching via the luff of the jib. I've always done this, without realizing that was what I was doing, I watch it even more than the teltales on the jib itself. Depending when I sit as helmsman, it might be easier to see the luff, than the teltales.

Also another spot on assessment by Steve is tacking. If the helmsman and the trimmers are "in synch" a winch handle should not be a tool for tacking, but one for adjustment while on a tack. Getting full on trim on the Genoa after a tack should happen JUST at the moment the sail fills not after (practice and it becomes second nature for the crew and the helmsman)... I've actually stalled or slowed tacks when lines have gotten tangled mid tack to give the crew time to get the genoa around (this can bite you of course, when I say slowed we're talking fractions of a second).

While we are on it, backing wind in the genoa just as your start to tack (don't just release the genoa), also brings a genoa around quicker, once it's released, and it serves to throw around the bow (especially in light air).

But yes, teltales on the genoa, teltales on the shrouds and windex at the top... are all used as guides for trimming. I'd argue though if you lost them all at once would you still know how to trim? Get to a point where you can... and you'll really know your boat!

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2013 : 20:39:19

Don't have a Bosun's Chair but I do have the 28' ladder, just too lazy to haul it down to the boat but I think I may this weekend. It is driving me a little crazy. I swear it shifted more lately. I know I tightened the screw well. I'll let you know.

Thanks,

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2013 : 20:56:51

Here's an idea. Take a small fishing pole with a spinning reel and tie a 1/8 oz. sinker to the end and a hook about 6" above it. Cast the line up over the windex and the pull the line until the hook catches on the index arms. If the arms are loose enough you should be able to tug them back into alignment. Once done, slacken the line and let the sinker fall to the deck and remove the hook and sinker. Then reel in the line. Might be worth a try before you break out the ladder.

Edited by - on

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