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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

WK Trailer Launching Tongue

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joelc
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/16/2012 : 19:48:40

Hi folks - I just got a Cat 250 WK with the Load Rite trailer with launching tongue. It's an amazing trailer, but the tongue does not extend enough to launch on my marina's ramp. Any suggestions?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2012 : 20:13:29

Joel, welcome to the forum. We have a C-250 WK as well and do what's called a "strap launch" as do many other folks on here. If you do a search for that term, you'll find many-many discussions on how it's done, pitfalls, and caveats. If you have further questions after reading those, don't hesitate to ask, we'll get you sorted out and in good shape to launch your boat.

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joelc
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2012 : 21:12:40

Thanks, I found that technique for many keel boats. I was thinking of adding a metal extension with a Fulton hinge. Anyone tried that one? The hinge is road-rated for 5000 lbs, although the rating drops off as the extension gets longer. Still seems safer than a strap, especially for retrieving.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2012 : 03:14:28

Welcome Joe,
The strap method is easy to employ, we have used it several times on our Swinger. Also seen it used on a WK without any issues.
Line the boat up on the ramp. Chock the wheels, unhitch, attach the strap, pull up an inch to remove the chocks, and back down the ramp.

A fifth wheel at the tongue saves bending the jackstand wheel (don't ask how we know ;)

Are you going to keep the boat in the water or pull it out after every sail?

Paul

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2012 : 08:37:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by joelc
 Thanks, I found that technique for many keel boats. I was thinking of adding a metal extension with a Fulton hinge. Anyone tried that one? The hinge is road-rated for 5000 lbs, although the rating drops off as the extension gets longer. Still seems safer than a strap, especially for retrieving.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The strap method has been used by countless trailer sailors for many years. It is safe and effective. Just have a check list of the steps, the proper equipment and a long enough ramp. My 3" strap is rated for 30,000 lbs and the C250 WK on its trailer weighs 7,000 lbs. We use up to 50' of strap. How would you fabricate a metal tongue that long? (Henk can launch his 250 with a long metal extension but his is a water ballast.) To float and retrieve your C250 WK you will have to literally submerge the trailer until the pads are 6" below the water.

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Tony C
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2012 : 12:15:42

Joel

I just launched my Cat250 WK off a Loadright trailer, I had to put both wheels of my tow vehicle well into the water for it to float off. For relaunching I am planning to have a 5 or 6 foot extension made for the tongue that I can add to keep my tow vehicle dry.

Thanks

Tony

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2012 : 12:25:51

I use a spare trailer wheel mounted on the center beam of my trailer during strap launch and retrieve of my Cat 250 WK.

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Tie-Down-Spare-Tire-Carrier-with-Eliminator-Removable-Torsion/Spindle&i=94390&str=spare+tire+mount&merchID=4005

The mount includes a spare bearing for the trailer so the wheel is free to rotate. The wheel can only be on there during the strap launch because it would touch the road during trailering. Anyway using the spare wheel to support the front of the trailer while moving up and down the ramp eliminates the problem of bent trailer jacks. Now if you can just find or construct a similar mount that you can crank up and down like a trailer tongue jack ....

Edited by - jbkayaker on 06/17/2012 12:49:20

Johnnybob
1st Mate

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32 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2012 : 16:58:35

Hey Joel, Welcome. I use a length of 1" thick rope that I had on hand to launch and retrieve my 250 wing keel.
I have not measured it but it is at least 30 feet long. My trailer came with a 9' long tongue extension that does not come close to being long enough. I had a contraption that consisted of two old trailer tires on functioning hubs with bearings welded together with a 2' long axle between the tires. I used it to balance heavy loads on to move beams and pilings around a job site where we could not access with equipment.
I welded a 2' length of 3" square tubing to the center of the axle and perpendicular to it. The 3" tubing slides inside of the tubing that is mounted under my trailer where the tongue extension rides when not in use. When I get to the landing I chock the tires at the top of the ramp, unhook the tongue and use the trailer jack to raise or lower the tongue until my contraption will roll back and slide into the tongue extension tube I then raise the trailer jack so it is clear.
I then tie the rope to the trailer hitch on the truck and to the trailer tongue. Remove the chocks and back down the ramp. I have found it necessary to maintain a little speed for inertia when entering the water otherwise the trailer will stall before it gets deep enough. You can pull with the rope or strap but you cannot push with it. If you have a tide to deal with I recommend launching and retrieving on a rising tide
I agree that you have to sink the trailer to the point of submerging the pad/guides before the boat will cleanly float on or off the trailer.
My contraption is probably a little over kill and if I did not already have it on hand I would probably have done something different but it does work well. Starting from scratch it would probably cost $350 to build but if you have couple of old trailer tires laying around and have a friend with a welding machine you could do it for closer to $100. It's on the heavy side it's all I can do to get in and out of the truck by myself.
Good luck with your new toy,I hope you enjoy yours as much as we have enjoyed ours. I'll be happy to post some pictures if you're interested.
John

Edited by - on

joelc
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2012 : 21:36:54

Thanks for the welcome and responses. I mainly sail in Ithaca, NY, out of Allan Treman State Marine Park. We like to trailer once a year to the Thousand Islands or Lake Ontario. The Cat250 is boat number 5 for me, 3 Macs and a Hunter 240 before this. We should have gotten the Cat long ago. I launched the boat in May in very low water (which helped, deeper part of ramp), the bunks were just underwater, truck quite in the water, tied the boat to the pier and drove it out with fingers crossed. Here I thought the launching tongue would do it.

I decided to try a metal extension, and use a strap for backup. I added a 3x3 Fulton hinge and 8' of 3" square tube, relocating the hitch coupler to the other end of the new 8' piece. Just finished it today, snapped a picture:

http://www.midiguitar.net/Cat250/Extension.jpg

It is really long, has some degree of play (mainly the hinge pins, and play from the original slider). Will test it one weekend soon to see how far I can dunk the bunks. I'm big on mods, hope to try the ones on the forum and Arlyn's page, and share a few of my own. J.

Edited by - on

DavidCrosby
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2012 : 13:57:43

I sail out of a "Dry Sail" club on Carlyle Lake, IL. My C250 WK is fully rigged and ready to go, but lives on its trailer. There is another C250 WK at the club as well. They were there before I bought my boat. I was informed by them that they had added two feet to the stock TrailRite trailer extension and were managing, but had wished that the extension was just a bit longer.

With that bit of information, I went straight for adding (welding) three feet to my extension. I am on my 3rd season and am pleased to report that I have no problems launching and retrieving my boat. I ramp launch every weekend.

It was suggested to me by our harbormaster to add safety chains to the tongue extension. She says that she has seen an extension pop off the hitch when the extension bottoms out on the ramp. Apparently, it was not a pretty sight.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2012 : 14:46:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tony C
 Joel

I just launched my Cat250 WK off a Loadright trailer, I had to put both wheels of my tow vehicle well into the water for it to float off. For relaunching I am planning to have a 5 or 6 foot extension made for the tongue that I can add to keep my tow vehicle dry.

Thanks

Tony
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Explore the strap launch options described. It'll save you a lot of money.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2012 : 20:09:32

I use a 30' strap with my fin keel trailer. Works well at our lake.

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joelc
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2012 : 17:10:46

JB: did this come with hardware? I ordered one, but there was a hole in the bottom of the box, no bolts or backing plates - just checking.

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Tie-Down-Spare-Tire-Carrier-with-Eliminator-Removable-Torsion/Spindle&i=94390&str=spare+tire+mount&merchID=4005

Edited by - on

joelc
Deckhand

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USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2012 : 17:12:48

Hi folks - I'm reporting back. I put on a 8' extension beyond the factory launching tongue, the bunks are still above water! Looks like the strap method is the best in Upstate New York!

Joel C.

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booyacht
1st Mate

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53 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2012 : 08:58:30

Another strap launcher here. I require backing the boat 25' into the water to get her off. I have a steel tongue extension with 2 wheels on it, but just too heavy and hard to deal with. After my first strap launch I knew I would never go back! I also bought a spare tire carrier/hub and mounted it as far as I could forward. Now Booyacht nicely rolls straight back into the water.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2012 : 18:36:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by joelc
 Hi folks - I'm reporting back. I put on a 8' extension beyond the factory launching tongue, the bunks are still above water! Looks like the strap method is the best in Upstate New York!

Joel C.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry to hear it didn't work. It would take a mighty steep ramp to allow a trailer launch of a C250WK without a strap.

Edited by - on

DonaldM
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2012 : 22:53:24

I use an extending tongue that nets an additional 8.5 feet. I back in until my rear wheels are touching water. Some ramps it works great, some not even close.

In California, I've successfully launched at Marina Del Rey (L.A.), Channel Islands Harbor (Oxnard), and Santa Barbara Harbor.

However, at Millerton Lake near Fresno, Calif, the aft end of the hull didn't even touch the water!

For any particular trailer, the key is the angle of the ramp. Being a mechanical engineer in my youth, I decided to start collecting data. If there are any civil engineers reading this, please chime in.

I now carry an 8 ft. 2X4 in my truck whenever I might be near a launch ramp. I use it with a free app on my iPhone (iHandy Level) to measure the slope of the ramp in degrees. However, it seems that the slope of ramps (and roads) is usually specified in percent of grade (rise over run), not degrees from horizontal. So if I need to convert I can just take the tangent of the angle X 100 to get slope in percent.

So far, I've found that ramps with a slope of 11.5 - 12.5 degrees (about 20% to 22% grade) work fine. I have not yet measured ramps where I can't launch. Unfortunately, I have seen a number of documents online (such as the California design handbook (www.dbw.ca.gov/PDF/LaunchFac/LRamps.pdf)) for boat launching facilities that specifies 15% maximum slope (8.5 deg.). I haven't tried this yet, not sure if it is steep enough to be able to launch.

As a side note, I am finding it is NOT very common to ramp launch fixed keel boats (any brand). I recently started counting trailers with low bunk boards and trailers with high bunk boards indicating a fixed keel. I have now counted 167 trailers at three different ramps which are steep enough to launch a WK, and have seen 0 trailers with high bunk boards (excluding mine).

Don

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Tony C
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2012 : 20:17:31

Hi Again

I spent $100 and had the local welding shop make me up a 4foot extension to the Extending tongue that came with the Trailer, that gave me a total tongue extension of 12 feet.

I just sucessfully hauled out my Cat 250 WK at the local boat ramp, I had the rear tires just touching the water and was able to winch her onto the trailer

I think this provides much more control that the strap method, I did leave the Trailer wheel down to provide support, and I put safety chains between the extending tongue and the truck in case the ball popped loose as I hit the top of the ramp

Thanks

Tony

Edited by - on

Dave Brown
Navigator

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USA
174 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2012 : 19:40:21

Our marina has a small boat trailer frame, 4'x4,sq with,a 20' tongue,
with 10" wheels, and a reciver hitch on the trailer end and a 2"
hitch on the tongue end.
( does that make a clear photo for you??
Ya it cost around $300. to make, but we all use it, from 20' to
the big boys 30'. Now in Nebr. not all boat ramps go down at a 45% angle. Most go down then level out to a smaller angle, so we must
put the trailer out there quite a ways.
I've tried the rope thing, but sometimes the trailer just stops,
and will not go any more on its own.
Each area has difference problems, but this works for us.
good luck, Dave B.

______________/)____________/)_______________/))))))________
.

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