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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Hatch slide material or mods.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Initially Posted - 05/16/2012 : 13:05:52

To prevent a further hijack of [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25035"]Tomas'[/url] hatch repair thread, I've started this one for the C-250.

When I first got SL, I had to replace the wear strips along the hatch since they were peeling off. I replaced them with self-adhesive UHMW plastic strips which work great for about a year or so, then they start to delaminate from their glue, then they just start peeling back, just like when I started. I've replaced them several times, and they're due for another replacement.

I've had a couple of thoughts on this, including deliberately peeling off the adhesive leaving the UHMW plastic strips intact (not sure how), then reapply the plastic using 3M double sided adhesive to hold them down. I've never had that stuff fail me (well once, but it was an extreme case and non-boat related).

The other thought I've had is to apply the UHMW strips on the underside of the hatch itself, instead of on the rails the hatch rides on. That way the plastic is out of the sun at all times, the thickness of the plastic is the same (so I know it won't bind the hatch) and hopefully I never have to change it again.

Now a third idea has been stirred up by a post that Don made in Tomas' thread above, using chair slides. However, as pointed out by John, they may be too thick to fit properly.

Anyone made mods to their hatch slides that have worked out well over time for you?

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 18:56:10

Weird, I have never replaced that slide stuff and my top slides pretty nicely. How about rubbing some Sailkote on the rails?

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 18:59:16

My boat came without any strips. I never knew I needed them. I don't know if it ever had them.

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Tradewind
Admiral

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531 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 19:03:28

I had trouble with the strips failing, removed them, cleaned the area and the hatch slides very well without the strips.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 19:19:08

Hmmm. Do you guys have a solid Lucite (?) hatch that slides fore & aft? Mine came with them installed and I just assumed everyone had them. Maybe I don't need them at all? Does your hatch show any wear along the tracks?

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britinusa
Web Editor

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Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 19:29:55

We have the hatch that is fiberglass with a lucite(?) inset.

Replaced the strips and had the same issues Steve describes.

I agree, if the tape were on the underside of the 'lid' rather than on the 'rails' there would be less opportunity to 'catch' the ends of the tape which seems to be the cause of the issue.

Paul

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 19:47:10

Our hatch (I think it is Lexan) looking aft.

Another view.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/16/2012 19:50:20

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 05/16/2012 : 21:10:12

That looks pretty similar to mine. What are the series of bolts(?) along the side? Mine doesn't have any bolts in the Lexan (Lucite?). I'd guess Lexan is what it probably is, at least I'd prefer it was.

Edit: I just figured out what they are, I thought I was looking at the side of the hatch, but it's the rear of the hatch where the grab handle is.

Edited by - delliottg on 05/16/2012 21:12:04

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 06:13:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 That looks pretty similar to mine. What are the series of bolts(?) along the side? Mine doesn't have any bolts in the Lexan (Lucite?). I'd guess Lexan is what it probably is, at least I'd prefer it was.

Edit: I just figured out what they are, I thought I was looking at the side of the hatch, but it's the rear of the hatch where the grab handle is.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The sliding hatch is definitely tinted acrylic (Lucite), not polycarbonate (Lexan). As pointed out elsewhere, later model boats have a fiberglass hatch with a smaller tinted insert.

Speaking of the screws at the front edge of the hatch, what functional purpose is served by that stick that they screw into? I removed it this offseason to bleach out the gray and refinish it, and I can't figure out what it's for. The big piece at the aft edge (mine is wood, I guess others may have HDPE) clearly stiffens the hatch, but the one at the front edge is too thin to provide any stiffening. Does it stop the hatch from sliding too far forward?

Edited by - on

superbob
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 06:31:33

Speaking of the sliding hatch, does anyone have lengthy scratches on the topside surface of their hatch? They're mainly in the middle of the hatch, wide and fairly deep. I'd replace the acrylic hatch but feel that it too would be marred. I asked my local dealer about this problem who said that it is problematic with many 250's (which I find hard to believe).

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 07:31:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by superbob
 Speaking of the sliding hatch, does anyone have lengthy scratches on the topside surface of their hatch? They're mainly in the middle of the hatch, wide and fairly deep. I'd replace the acrylic hatch but feel that it too would be marred. I asked my local dealer about this problem who said that it is problematic with many 250's (which I find hard to believe).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It is problematic and common. When you stand on the pop top it flexes down and contacts the acrylic sliding hatch. If someone slides that hatch while you're standing on the pop top, you get the heavy scratches.

Don't ever replace the hatch because of this, because it will just happen again. However, the scratches can be eliminated or greatly reduced with periodic polishing. I used an orbital polisher with the [url="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_12?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=novus+polish+kit&sprefix=novus+polish%2Caps%2C349"]Novus Polish Kit[/url].

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 10:06:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by superbob
 Speaking of the sliding hatch, does anyone have lengthy scratches on the topside surface of their hatch? They're mainly in the middle of the hatch, wide and fairly deep. I'd replace the acrylic hatch but feel that it too would be marred. I asked my local dealer about this problem who said that it is problematic with many 250's (which I find hard to believe).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It is a problem and likely why they went to the new hatch design. I polished mine out and even filed away some of the fiberglass it rubbed against. Still happened again. The tinted Lucite expands in the summer heat and curves upward. When you slide it under the hatch it scratches it. Ignore it. It doesn't impact the light coming in.

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superbob
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 12:09:07

Here's mine:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/papawatson/7217135728/in/photostream

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 12:18:49

Wow, that's horrible! Mine doesn't have anything like that. Maybe because we're in a cooler environment and the hatch doesn't expand as much?

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 05/17/2012 : 19:03:32

Speaking of the screws at the front edge of the hatch, what functional purpose is served by that stick that they screw into? I removed it this offseason to bleach out the gray and refinish it, and I can't figure out what it's for. The big piece at the aft edge (mine is wood, I guess others may have HDPE) clearly stiffens the hatch, but the one at the front edge is too thin to provide any stiffening. Does it stop the hatch from sliding too far forward?

I think it is to stiffen the forward edge to help prevent the Lucite from curving upward.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 05:38:23

Yes on the scratches, thought about trying to remove them but it would probably just happen again.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 07:17:33

Even if you can't completely remove the scratches, polishing rounds off the edges, taking away the white chalkiness and making the scratches blend in to the point of almost disappearing. It is worth a few minutes of time if you already have some polish and an electric buffer.

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superbob
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 09:18:41

It's too bad that the distance between the acrylic portion of the hatch and the fiberglass half it slides underneath isn't wider. There must be a way to widen the distance albeit ever so slightly. Even a quarter inch would make a difference.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 10:04:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by superbob
 It's too bad that the distance between the acrylic portion of the hatch and the fiberglass half it slides underneath isn't wider. There must be a way to widen the distance albeit ever so slightly. Even a quarter inch would make a difference.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Don't forget that the pop top gets much of its rigidity from the reinforcement provided by the vertical part around the edges. Any fiberglass that you file away reduces that rigidity, causing it to flex even more when someone is standing on it (potentially to the point of failure). So removing some fiberglass to increase clearance could actually reduce clearance when the top flexes with someone on it. This is something that I would not mess with. Presumably Catalina has a mechanical engineer on staff or under contract who evaluates these things and optimizes their designs. The best prevention may be to just be sure never to open/close the sliding hatch with someone standing on the pop top.

As a general practice, we always keep the sliding hatch closed when we're in the cockpit to prevent the risk of falling if we have to move to the mast or foredeck.

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superbob
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 10:58:00

Rick, wasn't close thinking of filing away the fiberglass and no one has ever stood on it while sliding back the hatch nor has anyone stood on the acrylic portion when closed. I'm the third owner of #421 who heaven knows what caused this problem to begin with. That being said, the acrylic top always rubs against the fiberglass when opening and closing albeit slightly. If the edges were raised just a hair the rubbing might cease.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 11:52:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by superbob
 Rick, wasn't close thinking of filing away the fiberglass and no one has ever stood on it while sliding back the hatch nor has anyone stood on the acrylic portion when closed. I'm the third owner of #421 who heaven knows what caused this problem to begin with. That being said, the acrylic top always rubs against the fiberglass when opening and closing albeit slightly. If the edges were raised just a hair the rubbing might cease.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Do you have the slide material mentioned by the OP in this thread? If so, that might be raising your acrylic hatch enough to rub against the pop top.

I'm still not sure whether this sliding material is supplied by Catalina on new boats (and was removed from my boat by a PO), or an aftermarket add-on that someone tried (and perhaps propagated on this message board). If it's the latter, that might be making the scratching problem worse.

My concern over filing the fiberglass was referring to another post, not anything that you did.

I'm not sure that I agree with the hypothesis that thermal expansion causes the hatch to curl. Since there is clearance on both sides of the hatch, any expansion toward the sides would not be constrained.

But there is one other factor that has not been mentioned here yet. If you remove the "handles" at the aft end of the sliding hatch, you'll note that both the top (HDPE) and bottom (teak on my boat) are curved in a way that discourages the hatch from sagging, and could encourage it to curl upwards when there is no load on it. When you screw these back together tightly, it provides reinforcement to the hatch, presumably to allow someone to stand on it. It's possible that in the summer heat the plastic softens a bit and these pieces cause it to curve upward slightly. It's basically the same thing that Randy mentioned, but a slightly different physical mechanism causing it.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 12:12:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 ...It can't expand laterally because of the rails...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
We could be dealing with some manufacturing tolerances here on our various boats. IIRC, my hatch has some side-to-side wobble between the rails. I'll recheck next time I'm on the boat.

One other thing that I will have to recheck: I believe that the bottom of my hatch is machined on the sides to be thinner where it slides over the rails. The net effect of this is to cause the hatch to rest lower relative to the pop top. There might be some variability in the amount of machining on different hatches, or possibly some hatches weren't machined at all on the sides.

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/18/2012 12:12:35

superbob
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 12:34:09

The hatch was rubbing long before I replaced the slide material (per the thread) last season. 90% of the damage was done before I purchased the boat . . .thinking is was an issue soon after it was purchased new. Like you, I'll be peering around the area to find if there's something not right.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 12:45:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by superbob
 The hatch was rubbing long before I replaced the slide material (per the thread) last season...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Do you think removing the material completely would increase the clearance enough to prevent contact between the pop top and the hatch? Until somebody tells me that they bought a brand new C250 with this installed at the factory, it sure sounds to me like this slide material may be an ill-conceived retrofit that went viral.

My hatch slides perfectly fine with the bare fiberglass rails. And the rails show no signs of wear from the hatch.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 13:15:45

I never expected this topic to take off like it has.

I may just remove the UHMW tape from my hatch runners, clean off the glue (again, what a PITA), and just leave it. Maybe sand the rails up to about 600 grit, and then take Paul's advice and spray Sailkote on them and see what happens. I also may take a file to the trailing outer edge of the hatch where it goes under the rail covers so it's not so prone to hanging up as it is now. Sliding it closed can be a pain sometimes if I'm not careful to pull down on the hatch beforehand.

I just assumed the tape was supposed to be there, since it was there when I got it. It'd be nice to hear from someone like Rick suggested, who bought their boat new, and was the tape installed when they did?

I don't think I can think of anyone on here who bought their boat new? I know there was a guy a while back who was looking at a MK II, but don't recall if he bought it or not.

Edit: Paul, you & Peggy bought JD new, didn't you? Did the hatch have tape on the rails?

Edited by - delliottg on 05/18/2012 13:25:38

Johnnybob
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Response Posted - 05/18/2012 : 15:19:30

When I bought my boat last year (it's a 98)there was no tape or slides between the Lucite sliding hatch and the fiberglass rails below.
It seems to slide OK with little effort. When I got the boat the Lucite was very badly scratched. I used a product PlastX from an auto supply store it's used to polish dull headlight lenses. With a few hours of elbow grease and some clean rags I was able to polish out the smaller scratches and render the deeper scratches almost invisible. I thought it was well worth the effort. With an electric buffer I think it would be quick and easy.

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