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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Age old question

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pa-sailor
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/27/2011 : 08:15:22

I will be replacing my 110 jib (stock rolling furler) this season on my 2004 WK. I only do lake sailing, but many sailing days are lost here (Lk Wallenpaupack, PA) because of light winds. I was considering going with a 150 genoa. Not sure if 135 would be a better choice. Comments appreciated, as well as best dealer to use.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 08:37:56

What is the average wind speed? Is it like Texas, where spring and fall are blustery and summer is light? If so the 135 is a good compromise.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3440 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 08:42:21

This is so dependent on your prevailing wind conditions. My Cat 25 is heavier than a 250 but I also have the tall rig so that does not quite even things out but where I am on the upper Potomac River, 5-10mph is probably the average widn condition. We certainly have higher winds throughout the year and I sail all year. But we also have many days in mid-summer with 5 mph wind conditions.
I bought a new Quantum main sail and 150 furling rig head sail about 2 1/2 years ago and have been very satisfied. Since I sail often and do have a range of wind conditions, I bought a higher quality Dacron sail that is less prone to stretch. sail cloth is made in different grades/weaves. For example, Challenge sailcloth comes in 4 grades starting from worst to best (meaning a weave that is more prone to stretch verses Dacron with a tighter weave), their grades are Challenge Performance, High Modulus, High Aspect and Marblehead. My sails are made of High Aspect sailcloth.

If you have mostly light winds of 5-10mph and do not sail all year-round, then a 150 head sail with a stock Dacron weave such as Performance or High Modulus may be fine and many online suppliers carry those grades or similar in their stock/off the shelf sails.

Only reason I mention about stretch is that it is wind dependent and use/hours dependent. Someone that sails frequently and in perhaps heavier winds, then the sail will stretch in fewer years and also a 150 head sail may be more than you need or desired.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 09:02:26

The C250 is a completely different animal from the C25, and I believe most C250 sailors would consider a 150% genoa too much sail area for the boat generally. I think most C250 sailors believe a 130 or 135 is a better all-around choice for the C250. It will be usable in a much broader range of winds. Wait for responses from a few C250 sailors before you make your decision.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 11:16:51

Bob,just had this [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23985"]converation[/url]. Click on link. I went with a 135 to replace my 110, for the same reasons you state:light winds. But felt the 150 would be overpowering and also block my view.
Have you decided who you will place order with. I ordered from Gary at Ullman in Ventura, CA. If you order by end of this month, you get 25% off.
Good luck,
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 09/27/2011 11:18:01

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 12:05:13

Bob,

I'm probably the only one here who knows both your boat and your lake. Between the 135 and 150, I'd recommend the 135. Many C25s have 150s, and most of them are frequently overpowered and wish they had 135 instead. Our C250's would probably be way overpowered by a 150. I don't think I've even heard of anyone here with a 150 on a C250.

FWIW, I bought a new 110 last winter. I had hoped to wait for another year before deciding between 110 and 135, but I got a bad tear from severe degradation along the foot, and there was basically nothing left to patch. So I had to make a call a year earlier than I wanted, and I opted conservatively for 110 because the breezes in 2010 seemed plenty to overpower the boat, and we do a lot of tacking on the river and I was concerned about fouling of the 135. If I were making that decision today I might have gone with a 135, since this past summer the breezes seemed a lot lighter.

Here are a couple of threads where this was discussed:

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21328&Search

http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22531

Up on Lake Wally, you have really fickle breezes, with unpredictable eddies as you pass by every cove. So fast and frequent tacking might argue for a 110. But overall I think you might be happier with a 135 to handle the light wind days - unless you wanted to consider a 110 plus a drifter. (But not sure how well you could respond to those cove eddies with a drifter.)

You might also want to consider a whisker pole, so you don't have to stand outside the lifelines holding your genoa out like you did when we sailed together.

(I still haven't forgotten that!)

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 12:41:52

"Many C25s have 150s, and most of them are frequently overpowered and wish they had 135 instead."
I run a 150 99% of the time and don't get overpowered until the wind gets 20k+ (Yes, I have a TR and a large roach on the main).
The C25 is a much more stable boat than the C250. I believe the original C250 design had a TR and a 150 - but Catalina quickly learned that that design was untenable.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 13:20:37

I use a 150 on my 250WK with a CDI furler, I'm happy with it. If the winds get over about 12 I'll roll it in a little. The sail shape is not perfect but I don't race so it doesn't bother me. I also have a 135 that I used for a few months when the 150 was in for repair and didn't like the cut, it blocked my view. It's a nice sail but I couldn't see ahead under the foot. The PO ordered both the 150 and 135 when he bought the boat, he was a racer and used the 150. I have tracks, blocks and winches for the jib sheets on the coamings and the 150 is perfect for me on Pensacola Bay.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 15:08:52

I have a 135% and think that's the right choice.

It really depends on how you sail. If you like the rail in the water, buy a 150%. If you go sailing for relaxing recreation, don't. When I first switched form the 110% to the 135%, I found that I had quite a bit of lee helm. Not a safe situation. I re-adjusted the forestay and backstay and corrected that -- mostly. I still have some lee helm if the wind picks up and the headsail is all the way out. That makes me a bit uncomfortable.

One thing that I discovered this season is that my boat performs very well and provides a more comfortable ride with a reef in the main and the headsail furled to about 100% when the wind gets above 8-10 knots. In previous seasons, I worked a lot harder because I thought reefing in those relatively light winds was wimpy. This year I realized it's not, it's sailng smarter, not harder.

If I were to do it over again, I would probably stay with a 110% and buy a drifter for those very light wind days. Recently, I've even thought that a smaller headsail on a self-tacking rig would be a better option since I single hand a lot.

Just out of curiosity, why are you feeling the need to replace your headsail after only 5-6 seasons that are only 5-6 months long?

Edited by - John Russell on 09/27/2011 15:10:27

pa-sailor
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 18:21:59

Great posts by all;
Most agree that the 135 is the best choice for my C250. Rick knows the boat and the conditions here so I value your input Rick.
Yes, I plan on building a new whisker pole to fit the new sail
To answer John, my head sail just seemed to fall apart even with repair stitching last winter. I will opt for a UV shield with the new sail. I don't have a dealer in mind, but will contact those recommended.
Bob

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