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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/28/2011 : 18:20:48

After getting me new furler installed last Monday I finally got my sail on my furler today which is a Harken with the swivels top and bottom.

I didn't get to go sailing with it but furled and unfurled it several times. I don't know how I single-handed without it! 30 seconds in or out beats whatever performance I might lose. Best investment I've made for the boat to date by far! Now all of this enthusiasm may change once I actually get to sail it but I'm betting it will grow instead of decline.

No more hanking on sails before going out, no more dancing to the foredeck in rough waves to release the sail so I can raise it, no more dancing to the foredeck to drop the sail and secure it when coming in, no more un-hanking after returning to the dock, and no more bringing the sail home so I can fold it up for the next trip!

I was surprised how small the actual foils are (with no sail installed) compared to the furlers on the boats around me. From a distance you almost don't notice the foils.

For those of you who race occasionally and might be thinking about purchasing a furler, this furler has twin sail tracks so you can pre-load another sail before doing a sail change. With the pre-feeder the sail slides right on and was easier to hoist than my main.

Now all of the above is based on my first experience with a furler and having zero experience actually using it while sailing so take all of the above with a grain of salt!

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 18:55:42

Gary,

Keep us posted. Because of a mistake made by our rigger and extrusions that were damaged while in-transit . . . we have yet to launch.

One very good thing I will say about Harken, when I e-mailed them pix of the damaged extrusions they said they were shipping two replacements free-of-charge - same day - no questions asked.

Looking forward to our first sail of 2011!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 19:06:47

OJ,

What mistake did your rigger make?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2011 : 21:55:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 No more hanking on sails before going out, no more dancing to the foredeck in rough waves to release the sail so I can raise it, no more dancing to the foredeck to drop the sail and secure it when coming in, no more un-hanking after returning to the dock, and no more bringing the sail home so I can fold it up for the next trip!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I never realized what a pain in the a... hank on sails were until I got a furler.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2011 : 06:54:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 OJ,

What mistake did your rigger make?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">After providing pix and pin dimensions he installed and over-sized toggle. After I explained the toggle wouldn't fit between the side plates of the masthead he told me to just bend it

. It wasn't until I started talking about bending metal actually stretches and weakens it and why hole diameters should match pin diameters on rigging because of load points - that he agreed to install the correct size toggle. Then when I explained that two of five extrusions were damaged he told me to call Harken for replacements. That give me the feeling that he thought I damaged them. Apparently he doesn't understand the term "added-value." I get highly annoyed when vendors assume you are naïve!

Edited by - OJ on 05/29/2011 07:03:05

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2011 : 07:00:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 I never realized what a pain in the a... hank on sails were until I got a furler.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, I was anti-furler all-the-way until the boat we purchased in the fall of 2009 had one on it. First time we used it (stowing the foresail in about 7 seconds) was truly a lightbulb moment. The guy that bought our 1981 C25 installed a furler and he feels like he didn't lose any pointing ability (though he probably lost some.)

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2011 : 07:59:34

These days many hot racing sleds use the same headsail foils that are on the Harken furler--I doubt they would do it if the lost a half a degree. Of course, partially rolled is another matter, but the Harken furler facilitates sail changes (hoist and peel) just like the big boys do.

Our first furler, a more ordinary Hood, came on Passage. Often times when we were taking an evening sail to nowhere, or when it was especially blustery, we would leave the mains'l cover on and just pull out the genny--pull one string and you're sailing, pull the other and you're not! Loved it!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 08:05:26

So, I'm having some trouble getting the line adjusted so the drum on the furler doesn't become full and jam up. I'm 1 or 2 turns of the foils from being fully unfurled when it jams and I'm only able to get about 2 wraps of the sheets around the furled sail.

I'm thinking maybe I need to core the line but I'm not sure how far back to core it or exactly how it's done. Once cored do I need to sew the core to the outer jacket so it doesn't continue to slide inside the outer jacket?

Another factor is the swivel block leading the line into the furler drum needs to go EXACTLY where the bow cleat is located to feed it straight into the drum. Only thing I can think of to remedy this situation is some sort of snap shackle that I can connect to the cleat after I leave the dock that has a swivel block attached to it.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 08:21:31

Keep a load on the sail as your furl. You should furl on a close reach.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 09:03:39

Can you add a pad-eye to hold a little block just inboard of the cleat? And what size is your furling line?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/30/2011 09:06:10

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 09:13:56

Gary, would this help?

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1329&ParentCat=40

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 09:51:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 Keep a load on the sail as your furl. You should furl on a close reach.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I was keeping a load on the line.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 09:52:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Can you add a pad-eye to hold a little block just inboard of the cleat? And what size is your furling line?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I could add a padeye but I was trying to avoid putting holes in the deck.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 09:59:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Gary, would this help?

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1329&ParentCat=40
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This would not really be any better than what I have now. I have a Harken swivel block for up front that fits on a stanchion. The problem is the stanchion is not in the proper place for the line to feed onto the drum at the right angle.

One of my dock neighbors said he had to strip 6 or 8 feet off his furling line to get it to furl properly (he has a Gulfstar 36).

I'm thinking I could use something like this attached to the cleat when needed -->> http://www.harken.com/pdf/4371.pdf

Edited by - GaryB on 05/30/2011 10:50:21

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 12:39:58

Now why didn't that professional rigger of yours provide for this?

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 18:07:06

As for where to mount the stanchion block we discussed whether to attach it to the rear pulpit leg or forward leg. The rear leg is too far back and the forward leg is too close to the drum. Since the clock was ticking (at a higher rate than I knew about at the time) we decided to run it through the lower loop (for the lifelines) on the forward pulpit leg. It gave the best angle (but not ideal) but as it turns out is too close to feed properly. We also discussed mounting a padeye and a block to the foredeck but it really needed to be mounted where the cleat is mounted and as I mentioned above, I don't want to drill any holes in the deck.

So my thought with going with the Harken T2 loop blocks is I can attach them to the cleat when leaving the dock and remove them when docking. Once I get the correct length of line from the block to the cleat I should get the correct lead-in angle to feed the drum properly.

Then again, I think if I core the furling line I can leave things as they are now and still have the furler work properly (but maybe not perfectly).

I'm open for suggestions or ideas.

Edited by - on

klassi1
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 18:09:30

We just installed Harken's "racing" furler with the 2 slots and removable drum on Dad's Laser 28 last week. He wants to cruise when we are not racing and a furler makes it much more managable. This way we can still use the racing sails on race day. Best of both worlds.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 19:21:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by klassi1
 We just installed Harken's "racing" furler with the 2 slots and removable drum on Dad's Laser 28 last week. He wants to cruise when we are not racing and a furler makes it much more managable. This way we can still use the racing sails on race day. Best of both worlds.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My furler has the twin grooves and the drum removes too but I'll probably never race her. Mine is the Mark IV, Unit 0.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 19:32:55

I think twin groove foils have been available for a while. I have a Unit 0 Mark I and it has twin grooves . . . a Harken trademark of sorts I suppose.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 19:36:06

When I bought Passage (with a furler), the lead angle to the drum was not ideal. I added a clamp and block to the forward stanchion of the pulpit, which I was able to adjust so the angle was "exactly" perpendicular to the drum. Then the line wound properly and didn't jam.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2011 : 20:04:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 When I bought Passage (with a furler), the lead angle to the drum was not ideal. I added a clamp and block to the forward stanchion of the pulpit, which I was able to adjust so the angle was "exactly" perpendicular to the drum. Then the line wound properly and didn't jam.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This is what I have -->> http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?409Z56LC6P37E

The smaller clamp and swivel block are what's supposed to go on the pulpit legs.

I've got the furling line running down the port side. I wonder if I switch it to the starboard side if I could get the angle set properly?

Edited by - GaryB on 05/30/2011 20:15:32

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2011 : 09:50:39

If you run the line on the side that it wraps onto the drum, the angle will be a little higher. If it wraps onto the opposite side, the angle will be a little lower.

I recall also raising my Hood drum a little by putting a longer shackle between it and the stem fitting--that may have been to help with the angle.

Again, what size is the line?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2011 : 12:16:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So, I'm having some trouble getting the line adjusted so the drum on the furler doesn't become full and jam up. I'm 1 or 2 turns of the foils from being fully unfurled when it jams and I'm only able to get about 2 wraps of the sheets around the furled sail.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I struggle with that too, and coring 5' or so at the drum is on my list for this year since I probably won't downsize my furler line yet. Open the cover with a fid close to the drum, pull up enough core to cut and melt without getting the heat close to the cover and milk it back in. Go back 5' and pull the core back and out, then cut and melt. Do a stitched whipping a 1/4" back on the core and milk it in. Put a little tension on the furler line and do another 1" stitched whipping through the cover and core that abuts the internal whipping.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2011 : 18:20:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 
Again, what size is the line?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry Dave,

7mm Single Braid Polyester (55' / 16.7m)

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2011 : 18:22:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So, I'm having some trouble getting the line adjusted so the drum on the furler doesn't become full and jam up. I'm 1 or 2 turns of the foils from being fully unfurled when it jams and I'm only able to get about 2 wraps of the sheets around the furled sail.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I struggle with that too, and coring 5' or so at the drum is on my list for this year since I probably won't downsize my furler line yet. Open the cover with a fid close to the drum, pull up enough core to cut and melt without getting the heat close to the cover and milk it back in. Go back 5' and pull the core back and out, then cut and melt. Do a stitched whipping a 1/4" back on the core and milk it in. Put a little tension on the furler line and do another 1" stitched whipping through the cover and core that abuts the internal whipping.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks Dave! I'll have to look up how to do what you suggested.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2011 : 19:36:21

Single-braid rope has no core to remove. It's just a single braid.

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