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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Input on issues with potential purchase please!

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limey156
1st Mate

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89 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/08/2010 : 10:36:36

Hello all, i am trying to get a Catalina 25 soon as I think they look great for a first cruising boat, and love the pop-top and many other features for my big 6'4" frame. I went to look at this boat which is in overall very good shape...

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/cgi-bin/saildata/db.cgi?db=default& uid=default& view_records=1& ID=16748& mh=1

but it has a few things i was wondering about:

This is a picture of the pass through for the wire for the swing keel. see the crack there? I am worried about that....

the hull is faded and it needs bottom paint. can i just paint the hull? will waxing it make it look nicer? it is in good shape, just purely cosmetic.

Some cracking around the lower gudgeon... looks to be superficial.

is this a repair from being run aground?

thanks a lot, everybody!

This is another boat i was going to look at, but the owner said it needs swing keel maintenance as he never did anything, and some windows need re-caulking.

http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/1672605301.html

Sun Dancer
1980 C25 SR/SK #1992
Hammock Island Marina, Chesapeake Bay.

Edited by - limey156 on 04/08/2010 10:40:32

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 04/08/2010 : 11:28:23

1. That is an odd crack - that area should never be under stress. It could be nothing, but I would want to know what the fiberglass looks like underneath the gelcoat. Lower the keel to the ground and check the housing
2. If that is faded gelcoat then it will should clean up with polishing compound enough to wax or polyglow. I didn't know Cats came in colors.
3. Probably not an issue, but check it thoroughly.
4. Or hitting something - check inside under the vberth for damage.
5. Swing keel maintenance, if it hasn't dropped, is not that difficult nor expensive. I would take a look at it. Since they're old, many of these boats will have leaks around the portlights and will need the kit from CD. Look for corrosion in the cabin light fixtures, watermarks on the shelves behind the settees and in the storage beneath, and also the compartment under the galley. Stick your head in the compartments under the settees and look up toward the underside of the deck with a bright flashlight for brown stains. If the seller claims that they don't leak, turn a hose or spray tank on the portlights. I would expect to get a very good price on the pictured boat. If it is structurally OK, it will still need a lot of labor.

Edited by - on

mlg3733
Navigator

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Response Posted - 04/08/2010 : 11:51:37

That's a lot of money for a boat in that shape. That crack does not look good, from the picture it seems that the boat is resting on wooden blocks which is probably where the crack comes from as if the boat had been dropped on them, the hull is way faded, the cracking around the gudgeons is pretty much usual. Walk away from that one!
The other one looks better from the ad, keel maintenance is pretty easy and inexpensive. but the price is high by New York area standard, $7000 without a trailer?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/08/2010 : 12:04:10

I call this one a teaser. Great outboard motor, three year old sails and furler. Guess it depends on your budget, vanity, freetime and skills. This one has been for sale for quite a while. There should be an abundance of C25s in your neck of the woods. For comparison sake how many other boats have you looked at?

My Catalina 22 was this color and finish - tomato soup. It took a lot of work to bring it back to its original sheen and the tangerine color shows new oxidation much faster than, say, white. You do not want to paint over gelcoat - else you'll be chasing scratches the rest of the time you own the boat . . . and don't let some boatyard hack talk you into it.

Good job of spotting the defects by the way!

Edited by - OJ on 04/08/2010 13:59:01

John Russell
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Response Posted - 04/08/2010 : 12:04:35

I think I'd walk away from this one.

Edited by - on

limey156
1st Mate

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89 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2010 : 12:32:35

thanks for the quick response all!

Id say you were right calling it a teaser, OJ. the specs are what drew us to it, but the defects shown....make us want to keep looking. this is the first boat we have looked at, and we are going to look at the other boat I linked to next week i hope. hopefully that one turns up OK and he can accept a lower price!

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/08/2010 : 13:19:56

We went through this process last October and we're now the proud owners of a our second C25. I've been monitoring prices for the last six months and it's definitely been a buyer's market. I've seen boats on Craigslist relisted 2 and 3 and more times - each time with a lower price. I've inspected a lot of C25s over the years so if you ever care to chat offline about a boat you are considering - feel free to send an e-mail via this forum. We've had lots of fun boat shopping with sailing friends.

Many here who live near the coast have purchased boats without trailers some distance away and motor-sailed them home.

Good luck and have fun shopping!

Edited by - OJ on 04/08/2010 13:59:48

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/08/2010 : 15:16:44

I agree, stay away from the first one.

The second ad says "Catalina 25 ft 1983 (make an offer) - $7000 (Alexandria, VA)" which indicates he's willing to deal. My C 25 was listed as $7000 and I easily negotiated to 6K which is still a lot for a C25 but mine was in very good condition and had many nice after market mods on it in terms of rigging and instruments. This boat has some nice extras but doesn't mention anything about sails. One thing that is nice is that he just got a bottom job done, which can be around $800 and makes a huge difference in performance.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2010 : 20:31:02

Picture #1: I'm betting somebody stored the boat by setting it down (a little too hard) on the raised keel, and then set some stands. It should be set on stands first, followed by lowering the keel onto a support so that the keel isn't supporting the hull, and the boat isn't supporting the full weight of the keel. (It appears to be done right in the picture.)

Questions: Are you planning on using a trailer, or will the boat spend most of its season in the water? If the latter, is there some other reason for wanting a swing keel? There are valid reasons... but if you don't have one, then I'll suggest you look for a fin. If you do have a reason and a little more money, you could look for a wing, which draws a couple of inches more than the fully-raised swing--with no maintenance issues.

Good luck in your quest!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/08/2010 20:34:47

limey156
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 06:42:49

Dave Bristle:

We want a swing keel because we want to use this http://www.hammockisland.com/ marina, and the only slips available now are 3' draft or less. the owner said that in the future a 4' slip may become available..... I also like the idea of it as it will give us some flexibility and reduced risk if we go play in the shallows of the Chesapeake. A wing keel would be sweet (and i read a thread on there about someones conversion to wing) but we want to get a boat soon, for a lower price, and within motor sailing distance so our options are somewhat limited.

PCP777:

Yes he said he is selling because he wants to move into a powerboat (and he said he was looking at one this weekend) so hopefully he should be willing to move on the price. the sails are the only thing that are meh, he said they are used but have life left, and no roller furler or spinnaker, while that first one had nice new sails. no spinnaker kinda sucks but im sure i can pick one up. the boatyard where the red boat is wanted $800 just to sandblast the hull!

OJ:

Thanks for the offer, we plan on motor sailing home ourselves. it would be a pretty nice way to get to know the boat, take it down the Potomac and then up the Chesapeake past Annapolis to our marina! Or from wherever we get the boat from.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 09:33:08

I agree with the others - Rcmd stay away from the first boat. If it was a steal and you enjoy and have the time to do a lot of work on it, well then maybe. But there are so many other Catalinas to consider especially if you are looking in the Annapolis to Wash DC/Alexandria area. That boat from Alexandria is probably in the Alexandria Municpal Marina or just north of it and south of Natl Reagan in the Washington sailboat Marina. the Washington sailboat Marina has about 150 sailboats on finger slips and about 200 addl sailboats ready to launch from dry docked spaces.

I am in this area as well with my catalina across the Potomac on the DC side where the Anacostia River joins into the Potomac.

Where do you plan on docking your sailboat ?

Edited by - on

limey156
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 10:02:35

I live just S. of Baltimore, and work in crystal city next to the pentagon so i am kind of familiar with the area. i plan on docking here: http://www.hammockisland.com

Edited by - limey156 on 04/09/2010 10:05:31

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 11:15:15

Sweet find there Sam!

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 12:26:14

I would recommend purchasing a fin keel C-25 or a wing keel C-25, because of the reduced maintenance issues and the increased solidity. My friend has a swing keel C-25 on the Narragansett Bay in Rhode Island, and he wishes he could have avoided the added concerns with his swinger. He sails it pretty hard, in conditions like you will often have sailing out of Bodkin Creek on the Chesapeake Bay. Sometimes I sail my boat hard on the Bay, and I'm glad I have a fin keel.

I just happen to know that there is one slip at Hammock Island Marina, for the same price, that has enough water for a 4 foot draft, and it is likely to become available in a month or two, after the owner moves his boat to Maine.

You could get a fin or wing keel Catalina 25 as soon as you like, park it at my marina temporarily this month or next month, and then move it to Hammock Island when that slip opens up.

My boat is at Ferry Point Marina on Mill Creek off the Magothy River. Call the office manager Kim to get a temporary slip at 410-544-6368. It's a pleasant, two hour sail from one marina to the other.

Then you could have the best of both worlds - a simpler, more solid boat and your favorite marina with good, cheap rates! That's my humble opinion.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 04/09/2010 : 17:22:49

I think you're looking for the right boat. The wing and swing have essentially the same draft. The wing advantage is reduced maintenance, its primary disadvantage is a higher price. The swing's advantages are less leeway, deeper ballast in a blow, if you ground with the keel less than fully retracted (don't sail that way) you can raise it the rest of the way and motor off, and cheaper. The obvious disadvantage is swing maintenance, but the iron keel needs a little care too, and I suppose if you actually capsized (not just a knockdown), the keel would come crashing home.

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
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Response Posted - 04/10/2010 : 07:43:10

Limey,
Good luck on your search! I have an '82 swinger Tall Rig I found after several months of looking for the right "project" boat. It needed lots of TLC, new sails, running rigging, bottom paint, etc. If you are looking to sail this season, I would recommend buying a "turn key" boat rather than a "fixer-upper." After spending 9 months on refitting my boat, I was amazed at how long it takes to do even simple things... you have to have the time, the tools, the parts, and the weather all line up at the same time to get anything done. Wrong sized widget? Back to West Marine to exchange. Got the day off but the weatherman makes it rain? Oh well, there's always tomorrow. While I thoroughly enjoy working on my boat, it takes a LOT of time to get a boat needing updating back to ship-shape condition. Much more than I had envisioned.

If you can find and afford a wing keel, that would be a great boat. I couldn't accomplish either one, so I focused on the swing keel. It does require more maintenance than a fin, obviously, but in the soft bottom and shallow water of the Chesapeake, having a swing keel really opens up your options. If you plan to race, you might want a fin. If you plan to gunkhole, a swing certainly comes in handy. I use my boat to explore and gunkhole and love the flexibility my swing keel affords.

As for the two boats you posted, I'd stay away from the red boat, certainly at that price. I got my boat, in much better condition than that one for $1,000. Trying to bring the color back on the red hull will be a lot of work.

If you want to go sailing, don't buy a boat that needs a lot of work.

Let me know if you have any questions about swing keels. I might be able to help. Also, I'm just across the Bay Bridge on Kent Island. Keep me in mind if you need an A-frame to drop the mast. I have one that worked great, even on the heavier tall rig mast. You're welcome to borrow it any time.

Good luck!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/10/2010 : 09:58:02

Unless you're really lucky, buying any of the first few boats you look at will guarantee unhappiness in the near future. If you're in a hurry just to get a boat so you can go sailing this summer, don't. Buying a fixer upper like the red boat above, will as others have said, require a great deal of time getting ship shape. Spend a little more time looking and buy a boat that needs little to no maintenance and you'll be on the water in a SAFE boat with no worries in about the same time and with a lot less work and stress than buying the fixer upper.

You're buying the boat to enjoy and relax, not to work on and stress over whether it's in good condition. Remember you're going to be taking your family and friends out.

Edited by - on

andy
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Response Posted - 04/10/2010 : 11:21:31

the value of the red boat looks to be in the sails, furler and motor. That boat's too rough for the money...I'd keep looking. There are some well equipped beauties out there for not much more $$$

Edited by - andy on 04/10/2010 11:23:38

John Russell
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Response Posted - 04/10/2010 : 11:57:24

Remember, a $10,000 boat will cost $10,000 no matter how much you pay for it up front.

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