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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Keel concern on a possible purchase...

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Serene Speed
Deckhand

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4 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/07/2010 : 12:09:26

Hi everyone,

I'm new here, just found the place while researching a boat I'd like to buy. My wife and I are looking at a '79 Catalina 25. The boat is in good condition for her age. Except for one issue that makes me worry... The lower leading edge of the keel looks like it has taken a rather large hit and there is what appears to be the beginning of a 'Catalina Smile'. There is a 6inch crack at the leading edge of the keel where it meets the hull. The crack is not wide, but I'm not sure how deep it is.

I'm going to have a pre-purchase marine survey done, but I don't want to count on that 100%.

What can I look for to determine if this is a serious issue? How concerned would you be?

I feel that the price is fair for the boat given the condition of the rest of the boat. I'm just worried that this could become a very large problem in the near future.

Thank you for your time and oppinions...

With a bit of luck I'll be a proper member of the community in a couple weeks.

:-)

Also, can anyone recomend a good Marine Surveyer in Ontario, east of Toronto?

Daniel

:fingers crossed:
'79 Catalina 25
Fin Keel

Edited by - on

Serene Speed
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 12:18:05

Here's a picture of the keel. The damage on the lower leading edge is about as long as the green line I added. The crack is (of course) out of the picture...

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 14:10:02

I'm sure someone will chime-in on this one.

Here's a little peripheral discussion meanwhile:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21200

Any close-up pix of the "rather large hit" ?

As for surveys (and maybe surveyors in Canada come from a different cut) but I've heard many, many stories about surveys done in the U.S. that missed some rather obvious defects - things that a trained eye should have readily identified. I certainly would want to know all available options if the surveyor misses something that has a material negative affect on value and sea-worthiness.

Based on the picture above it looks like a well cared for boat! Good luck!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 16:03:27

Try boatus.com and search for surveyors Canada. I turned up several hits, but you know who is close.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 16:55:08

The keel and bottom look really really clean. I don't see any blisters, rust, or uneven spots. That is good. The damage on the cast iron keel itself looks very minor. You could clean it down to bare metal and fix with epoxy. The cast iron does not look cracked or anything serious. Keep in mind this is cast iron and it needs to be encapsulated with epoxy under the paint to prevent rust. Either this is a fresh water boat or that job has been done.

The "Catalina Smile" crack where the keel meets the hull is much more serious. You need to look inside the keel well in the boat and inspect the keel bolts and the floor of the keel well. Clean it spotless and look for cracks. Check the keel bolts for rust or if they are loose. Look for any sign of a leak.

I am not suggesting you bypass a surveyor, but you can check for this yourself and point out to the surveyor what you found.

If no leaks, no cracks, keel bolts are tight, floor of keel well is dry, no sign of water delamination I'd just try to tighten the keel bolts and close the "smile" or have it repaired as part of the sale.

Post some more pictures, if the boat is as clean as the bottom you could be good to go. Try to show a picture of the "smile".

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2010 : 17:36:19

More on C25 fin keel maintenance . . .

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20954

Edited by - OJ on 04/07/2010 17:38:26

Serene Speed
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 04/08/2010 : 05:28:14

Thanks everyone!

Unfortunetly, I didn't take any pictures. The owner accepted our offer and we have nearly a month until closing, so I'll be sure to take a couple pictures soon.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 [...] You need to look inside the keel well in the boat and inspect the keel bolts and the floor of the keel well. Clean it spotless and look for cracks. Check the keel bolts for rust or if they are loose. Look for any sign of a leak.

I am not suggesting you bypass a surveyor, but you can check for this yourself and point out to the surveyor what you found.

If no leaks, no cracks, keel bolts are tight, floor of keel well is dry, no sign of water delamination I'd just try to tighten the keel bolts and close the "smile" or have it repaired as part of the sale.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'll definetly do all of that.

The picture I posted above was taken last spring. The keel now has one very small rust bubble on the surface of the paint/epoxy near the base of the keel and a half dozen or so small rust coloured stains. But, other than that, it almost looks like a lead keel.

The rest of the boat shows it's age a bit more but from what I can tell, the owner treated it with the same care as the hull and keel.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2010 : 07:05:46

Every early C-25 iron keel I've seen (all were salt-water boats) has had rust spots on the keel, or big stains on the attempts to coat it. Cast iron is cast iron, and coatings (epoxy, etc.) will hide the rust for a while, but it won't prevent it forever. The good news is there's a lot of cast iron there, and the rust can't be seen in the water. Also, cracks or missing pieces of iron down low are not a big deal.

The "smile" and keel bolts are another story... Most of the Catalina iron fins (pre-'83?) I've seen had some degree of smile. The iron keels were hung with mild steel bolts that are usually rusty--some to the point of having little in the way of a nut remaining. Tightening them might not be feasible. There are lots of discussions here about sistering in new bolts. The later lead keels were hung with SS bolts and heavily encapsulated to the point that there was no external joint to "smile".

Edited by - on

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