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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

chain plates

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captmikem
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/29/2010 : 17:15:37

I have a 1980 Catalina 25 wing keel. I am also very new to sailing. I am retired motor yacht captain. Both of my bulkheads are in need of replacing. My question is, when I loosen up a chain plate to take out the bulhead, will it just hang there or will some unseen force snatch it through the roof of the boat and propell the mast into orbit. Like I mentioned I am very new to this. Please advise. Kindest Regards to all.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2010 : 19:19:29

You're planning to do this with the mast in the raised position?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2010 : 20:12:58

It could be done, but the mast would have no lateral support above the spreaders. I don't think it is a good idea. Dropping the mast is an easy process with an A-frame and the mainsheet - search the tips and threads for lowering the mast and you will discover a number of technics that sound complex but are quite simple. I use 2 2x4x10' with the foot slightly rounded on the back. They are lashed together at the top with the bases spread to reach both forward lowers plates and a through bolt with a carabiner just below the lashing. The bases are drilled to accept 1/4" high strength polyester line that is passed through the eye of the chainplate and tied after removing the forward lowers. Put a shackle on the stemhead fitting and clip on the mainsheet; the other end of the mainsheet is clipped to the carabiner. Attach the jib halyard to the carabiner and tie it off at the mast cleat. Loosen the upper and aft lower shrouds about 5 turns and remove the forestay. You'll feel better the first time if another person is standing at the mast to hold the upper shrouds as they slacken when the mast comes down. Feed out a little line as your helper pushes the mast until gravity takes over and you control the rate of descent. It only takes a few minutes for the entire process. You'll eventually want something to catch and support the mast above the stern pulpit and a few other refinements, but that's the quick and dirty. But do read the other resources on this site so you have a better grasp of what's happening and what your options are.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2010 : 07:15:51

I don't think that lowering the mast is necessary. The boat next to me on the hard is a Cape Dory 25 and he is replacing his rusted out chain plates. Cape Dory used mild steel plates under the deck. A major flaw in their boats. We took his jib halyard and attached it to the base of a stanchion on one side and his main halyard to a stanchion on the other side, Tightened them up and cleated them off. Then released the upper shrouds. The mast is solid and has been this way now for the past three weeks while he cut the old plates out and is having new SS plates made. My boat is on the side of him and this set up is rock solid so I'm not worried about it at all. A side lesson learned here is not to buy a Cape Dory. It is unbelievable to me that they would use mild steel plates buried behind an inner liner that he had to hack a hole in to get to the plates. Cape Dory really cheaped out on a small but critical part that can't be seen in a visual inspection.

Edited by - islander on 03/30/2010 07:17:06

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2010 : 07:50:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Cape Dory used mild steel plates under the deck.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not to hijack the thread, but that is surprising in an otherwise high quality boat. I would still lower the mast for a major project like this, but that is my preference. The chainplates will just hang there as long as you remove the shroud tension, but you will need to remove and rebed them to fix the leak anyway.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2010 : 07:57:07

I was surprised to. I even went to the Cape Dory forum to check on this problem. I did a search on chain plates and found out that this is a major problem for them through out their line of boats and not just limited to the 25s.

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captmikem
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2010 : 12:28:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Cape Dory used mild steel plates under the deck.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not to hijack the thread, but that is surprising in an otherwise high quality boat. I would still lower the mast for a major project like this, but that is my preference. The chainplates will just hang there as long as you remove the shroud tension, but you will need to remove and rebed them to fix the leak anyway.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2010 : 14:00:26

You should be fine if you shackle one or both halyards to one or more stanchion bases on the same side and snug them. Don't make them too tight--you don't want to bend the mast sideways. The lower shrouds can take most of the load, which won't be much.

Loosen the upper shroud, counting the turns for future reference, before you release it--the mast should be steady and secure with the dangling shroud. I might even loosen the opposite upper shroud a few turns so it isn't pulling the mast with the normal force, but is just barely taut. This will prevent the spreader from putting an unbalanced force on the middle of the mast.

Good luck with the project!

Edited by - on

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2010 : 15:50:07

I have replaced all four of my bulkheads using the method above--halyards to stanchion bases. I only did one at a time, because I am just one person. No problem. I agree that for a big job I would probably unstep the mast--not so easily done at my dock--but I don't consider this such a big job. The big thing to remember is to mark your chainplate where it comes through the deck so that you can position it properly on the new bulkheads.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2010 : 21:24:24

I'm still in the process of rebedding the chainplates, and have done the lower shrouds, with the uppers next on the list. I removed the lower shrouds one at a time and rebedded them (while loosening it's counterpart) and now I expect to simply loosen each upper shroud and rebed those.

Given that several people have mentioned using the halyards in place of the upper shrouds, I will take that precaution.

I've been reading this forum for four years now and am still learning!

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2010 : 14:10:12

No need to remove the mast, just loosen the upper shrouds, head stay and back stay, and the mast will be just fine. Just don't go sailing until it's all back together again.
You need to pull the chain plates to re-bed them any way. They leak and that is what started the whole mess to begin with.
Put a screw driver in the chain plate shroud hole and pull the chain plate up out of the deck.
When making the new bulkhead, lay the old bulkhead on it and drill only the bottom hole in the new bulkhead.
After you fit the new bulkhead, install the chain plate with a bolt in the bottom hole and mark the other three. It'll come out perfect.
Drill half way through the bulkhead and then drill the rest of the way from the other side.
Use a brad point drill.

Edited by - on

Tom Gauntt
Navigator

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204 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2010 : 16:46:52

Captain Mike,

I'd think seriously about dropping the mast anyway... reasons: 1) It gives you one less thing to worry about while you are replacing the chain plates; 2) It gives you the chances to inspect the shrouds and stays; 3) It gives you the chance to inspect the sheaves 4) it gives you the chance to check the VHF and anchor light 4) gives you a chance to inspect the spreaders and boots; 5) gives you the chance to install a mast plate and re-bed the tabernacle; 6)gives you the chance to fix any problems associated with the above.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2010 : 07:32:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tom Gauntt
 I'd think seriously about dropping the mast anyway... reasons:... 3) It gives you the chance to inspect the sheaves...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And if you have the original wire-to-rope halyards, you can change out the sheaves for all-rope. Catalina Direct has what you need.

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 04/04/2010 : 18:50:19

Thank you about the Cape Dorys! I wouldn't have known. I like these boats and I had no idea.

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superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2010 : 13:17:11

Old saying: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Drop the mast.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 10:43:54

No need to drop the mast as long as the lowers are in place. However, I cannot imagine having a new boat without dropping the mast to inspect it thoroughly.

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crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 11:08:24

Re the Cape Dories. Every boat has some problems. I loved my Cape Dory and am said to hear about the chainplate issue, but I wouldn't let it stop me from having another one or the old one back again. The overall quality of the vessel makes me a little forgiving. But I too wonder why they did that.

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 14:02:56

I'm not knocking Cape Dory's, I love the full keel and the NE look of the boat but It is something to be aware of if you were to consider buying one. It was considerable work for the guy to fix and now he has two 20"x 12" holes in his interior liner to try and cover up. By the way this was a 1981.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2010 : 16:03:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 I'm not knocking Cape Dory's, I love the full keel and the NE look of the boat but It is something to be aware of if you were to consider buying one. It was considerable work for the guy to fix and now he has two 20"x 12" holes in his interior liner to try and cover up. By the way this was a 1981.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The problem was with a reinforcement for the chain plate inside the deck. In 1983 they changed to aluminum.

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