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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/05/2010 : 09:15:00

... that it's cold outside. Let's just say that you've been thinking about warmer things. Let's just say that you actually had a job and had a budget of around $35k. Let's just say that you had a Catalina 250 and 5-10 foot-itis. Which one would you choose? Why?

Catalina 30 (1990 or later)
Ericson 32
O'Day 322
C&C 32
C&C 34

Let's just say.....

John Russell
1999 C250 SR/WK #410
Bay Village, Ohio
Sailing Lake Erie
Don't Postpone Joy!

Edited by - John Russell on 02/05/2010 09:15:39

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 10:22:59

The Ericsons and C&Cs should be considerably more than $35K (or something's very wrong with them and they'll end up costing you $60K), so you're pretty much "stuck" with the C-30, which isn't that bad a place to be stuck. (You'll probably spend $45K+, including after the purchase, to end up with one you like.) I like some O'Days, but they don't have a Frank Butler. I think the the C-30 is a sounder investment. [url="http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1992/Catalina30-W--Walk-Thr...--2129218/Branford/CT/United-States"]Here's one I could get interested in...[/url]--just down the road a piece.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/05/2010 10:31:00

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 10:34:11

Robinhood 36. Navigator layout. What was the budget again?

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 10:35:26

I sail a Catalina 25 and in the Ensinada race we parked next to a Catalina 30. It was VERY nice and I thought very roomy. If I had my choice of where I could sail, I would probably trade in my 25 for a 30. There is a big difference in interior volume, mast height, accouterments, etc between the 25 and the 30. In Lake Erie, this would be a very stable platform compared to the 250.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5896 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 11:07:41

I have always liked C30's. They sail well and have ample amenities. I race against one frequently on the Chesapeake Bay, and it is very competitive against Pearson 30's and 31's, which are popular and respected racer/cruisers. They are well-built, but there are boats that are built better.

One of the better built boats is the C&C. I haven't been aboard a 34, but own a C&C 35 Landfall. Look at the construction of the C&Cs. They have stainless steel rod rigging, really beefy chainplates, and excellent fiberglass work. Mine, for example, has no spider cracks anywhere. Most of their boats have a racing version and a cruising version, which are somewhat comparable to Catalina's tall rigs and short rigs, and the 1980s vintage racing versions are still well respected and competitive today. Mine is the cruising version, and, although it's not as fast as the racer, it nevertheless has good speed, and it's very stable in heavy weather.

I made a quick check of Yachtworld, and found the following C&C 34 that could be bought within your price range, and looks nice. The Yanmar engine (which is a great engine) only has 850 hours.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2115053& ybw=& units=Feet& access=Public& listing_id=1012& url=

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/05/2010 11:22:08

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 12:38:52

[url="http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Ericson-32-200-2061306/Sandusky/OH/United-States"]1988 Ericson[/url] (in my marina as it turns out)
[url="http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1974/C-%26-C--1903422/Eastlake/OH/United-States"]1974 C&C[/url] (not terribly far away -- certainly sailing distance from my marina)
[url="http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/O%27day-322-2042095/Sandusky/OH/United-States"]1988 O'Day[/url] (Another one in my marina)
[url="http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1989/Catalina-30-Mkii-2151516/Sandusky/OH/United-States"]1989 Catalina 30[/url] (An afternoon's sail to my marina.)

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 12:39:18

John, this would fit the [url="http://logboatstore.com/classifieds/XcCPViewItem.asp?ID=308560"]bill[/url].
Steve A

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 12:41:24

Steve A and Steve M. Those could fit in if they wouldn't cost another $5k to ship from the left coast to the north coast.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 13:04:31

For $ 35K -- look at an Islander 36. That's what Zac Sunderland circumnavigated in. Vicki and I looked at one after Christmas that was just gorgeous.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 14:32:08

Great mid-winter topic!

Those 70s boats (the Ohio C&C and the Islanders I've seen) are a little long in the tooth, unless you're interested in working on the boat (and paying to have it worked on) as much as sailing it. That was before the more blister-resistant resins were being used, and you tend to find issues with wood (balsa) core, electrical systems, instruments,... The C&C has a gas Atomic 4--ubiquitous in its time, but that was then... The Ericson looks like a real prospect--moderate draft, diesel, and their interiors are gorgeous. The price is a little surprising, but markets have changed. (Survey mandatory!) Remember that the complexity and costs of systems is an exponential function of the size of the boat.

So, John........ are you "just saying"?? Or just dreaming?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/05/2010 14:35:05

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 15:03:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 One of the better built boats is the C&C. Look at the construction of the C&Cs. They have stainless steel rod rigging, really beefy chainplates, and excellent fiberglass work. Mine, for example, has no spider cracks anywhere. Most of their boats have a racing version and a cruising version, which are somewhat comparable to Catalina's tall rigs and short rigs, and the 1980s vintage racing versions are still well respected and competitive today. Mine is the cruising version, and, although it's not as fast as the racer, it nevertheless has good speed, and it's very stable in heavy weather.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'll second the vote for a C&C as they are not only very overbuilt typically, but fast enough to keep a silly grin on your face. Not all have Atomic 4's, and most don't have blisters.

sten

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 15:19:03

Just cold winter's day musings, Dave. The "actually had a job" part will likely take care of the five-foot-itis for a while. I'm hoping just to hold on to my 250.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 16:53:56

A 1994-1996 C34 - Love it!

Paul

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 17:39:26

Me too, paul but they're closer to $75k than $35k.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 19:05:18

"Dreaming" = fully restored Pearson Vanguard, Hinckley Pilot, Ericsson, etc. Reality check = Cat 30 or Cat 34 or C&C or Tartan. Then again I'm dreaming of just being able to use my C25 for more than a dozen sails each season!

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 19:22:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Great mid-winter topic!

Those 70s boats (the Ohio C&C and the Islanders I've seen) are a little long in the tooth, unless you're interested in working on the boat (and paying to have it worked on) as much as sailing it. That was before the more blister-resistant resins were being used, and you tend to find issues with wood (balsa) core, electrical systems, instruments,...
So, John........ are you "just saying"?? Or just dreaming?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It depends on the year, Dave. With the Islanders, the break year for blisters seems to be about '77. As for balsa core -- most of the boats on the list, including Catalinas, have balsa core decks. Yes, you may have to do some work with a sub-35K boat, but that's what that price is all about. The I-36 was named by Cruising World as one of the top 20 cruising boats of all time, and they're PHRF raced competitively, especially in SF Bay.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 20:23:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Even Chance
 ...Yes, you may have to do some work with a sub-35K boat, but that's what that price is all about...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My point exactly. a 30+ footer is going to cost you more than $35K one way or the other, unless you're into floating condo-wrecks. By comparison, the C-25 or C-250 is a simple little daysailer.

Edited by - on

Nukey
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 21:04:19

Anybody have any input on the S2 10.3? I've had my eye on this one: [http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1984/S-2-10.3m-2118015/South-Haven/MI/United-States] but I really want something with no more than a 5' draft.

I'm looking for a cruiser racer that I can club race during the week and enter in distance races like the Chicago to Mackinac. The average phrf in my club is 103, and the highest is 171, so I'd like something a little faster.

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2010 : 23:33:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Even Chance
 ...Yes, you may have to do some work with a sub-35K boat, but that's what that price is all about...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My point exactly. a 30+ footer is going to cost you more than $35K one way or the other, unless you're into floating condo-wrecks. By comparison, the C-25 or C-250 is a simple little daysailer.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well, I don't want to chase this rabbit too far, but it's a great time to buy a boat right now. The I-36 we looked at was in amazing shape, and it could be had for under $ 30K. There are some great deals out there now, and they're not "floating condo-wrecks."

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2010 : 10:49:31

10 easy (cheap) steps to make a 35', 35-year-old boat with a variety of deferred maintenance issues look great:

1. Rub "teeth whitening" toothpaste into all of the spider cracks; then wax and buff every inch of gelcoat with fiberglass restorer, including the non-skid areas.

2. Oil (for color) and put a fresh coat of satin varnish on every piece of exterior brightwork (yes, the varnish will peel off the oil some day), and spray gloss polyurethane throughout the interior--especially on the wood and any glass that's crazed from sun damage).

3. Use a hose-sprayer to spray bleach all over the sails; let dry, and then fold and bag so the patches and deteriorated seams are deep inside the bundles. Then store them somewhere else, to be looked at "some other time." While you're at it, soak all running rigging in bleach until the gray color (and the colors that identify the lines) are gone.

4. De-grease the engine, mask off the air-cleaner intake, and then spray paint the whole thing--hoses, oil filter, and all. (This one is my favorite!)

5. Spray the head area with Lysol and flush 2-3 bottles of Lysol down the head (forget about normal "head treatments"--this is war); then soak all upholstery with Febreze and spray some more around the rest of the interior.

6. Install new, shiny-white spreader boots and wrap rigging tape around the corroded turnbuckles, all the way up past the swages where the shrouds are showing their age.

7. Scrape off the barnacles and grass within a foot of the waterline, put a coat of hard bottom paint over the remains, and then have the boat put into the water so nobody sees the mess.

8. Several hours before a showing, open every port and hatch, and run a 20" box fan in the forepeak aimed at the companionway.

9. Start and thoroughly warm up the engine; then shut it down just a few minutes before prospective buyers arrive.

10. Put a bottle of red wine, some shiny new polycarbonate stemware, and a small, extra-fragrant bouquet (sprayed with a floral eau de toilette) on the table in the salon.

Sure, you'll have to do a sea trial (with sails) some day, but by then your buyers will have told everyone the boat is "just gorgeous!"

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/06/2010 11:05:33

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2010 : 11:30:46

Gee Dave, I hope Bruce doesn't read that....

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2010 : 12:15:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 Gee Dave, I hope Bruce doesn't read that....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Bruce bought Passage from the guy who bought her from me--I'm out of it!

But I did upgrade quite a few things--I'll admit only to covering up some problems with the old bottom paint that I never found the time or money to completely remove...

I'm describing some of the things I've seen/smelled when I've looked at boats. Even more amazing are the boats with junk piled all throughout the cabin, lockers stuffed with moldy lines and PFDs, and no evidence of anybody even hosing down the cockpit. Some people have no clue about the value of "curb appeal".

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/06/2010 12:22:45

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2010 : 15:16:10

"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing." -- Oscar Wilde

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5896 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2010 : 17:12:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nukey
 Anybody have any input on the S2 10.3? I've had my eye on this one: [http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1984/S-2-10.3m-2118015/South-Haven/MI/United-States] but I really want something with no more than a 5' draft.

I'm looking for a cruiser racer that I can club race during the week and enter in distance races like the Chicago to Mackinac. The average phrf in my club is 103, and the highest is 171, so I'd like something a little faster.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The S2 would be a lot faster than your club average. I forget it's rating offhand, but know it's very quick. S2s are built in Holland, Michigan, not far from South Haven. I toured the plant years ago, and it was an efficient looking operation. S2s have exceptionally good fiberglass and gelcoat work. One of the most competitive boats racing at Solomon's Island, MD is an S2 9.1. I have raced against it many times, and it's very fast, and has the best female crew I've ever seen. I know of one of their cruising versions, about 26 feet, that has been sailed to the Virgin Islands and back several times. I don't think it would disasppoint you.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2010 : 17:28:28

Why not a C34? We love ours, and moved from our C25 (about 12 years of ownership) into Aquavite almost 13 years ago.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2010 : 18:04:55

Stu:

Interesting as on Yacht-world you can get a C34 for less than the later version C30's and they do look to be of comparable condition and with more amenities. As I read the reviews, the C34 sailing qualities seems to be as good or better than the C30 -- the only "preference" with the C34 is for the keel stepped mast . . .

Edited by - on

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