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25 Pop Top

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steveo
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/10/2009 : 20:08:13

The pop top on my 25 is operable, but it seems tough for one person to get it all the
way up into a stable position. The latches are fully free and the 4 posts operate. It just wont go all the way up. Is this just a two man muscle issue. The mast boom is not stopping it from going up. Its just heavy. Ideas?

Cat. 25

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2009 : 22:10:39

Sorry just kidding.
I'm just 5'-7" and not that strong but I use the pop top every weekend.
I do have to stand square below the PT (pop top) and push with both hands.
When you said;
"It just wont go all the way up"
Do the legs stop it? Is it hitting something?
It should pivot on the 4 legs then rest against the mast.
If it only goes part of the way I suspect it is jamming on something and the legs are NOT operating as they should.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2009 : 22:51:02

Regarding the weight, Catalina Direct sells a [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=612"]kit for installing gas struts[/url] that reduce the effort by a reported half to two thirds. As I understand it, to install them, the mast should be down so the pop-top can be extended further forward to give the struts their initial "charge".

Also, do you have the hook that goes in the mast slot and slides up to hold the lip of the pop-top? You can also see that on CD's site.

Edited by - on

steveo
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2009 : 07:26:04

I think it may be that I am pushing it straight up and not forward at the same time. I read in one of the blogs somewhere that you have to push forward while pushing up. I have leverage on the height and strength thing. Maybe just a lack of brain power.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2009 : 20:00:58

The movement follows a 90 degree arc from the "9:00" position to the "noon" position.

First the force has to be straight up, then at the 1/2 point, the force should be 70% up and 70% forward, then beyond that, it's mostly forward movement.

There is a sliding latch in the mast track on most boats, and it can get in the way, as can any dowhaul or cunningham lines from the boom.

Do you have a boom vang that might be interfering somehow?

Next time you have a helper, ask them to push the poptop up and watch from outside to see whether anything is getting in the way. If it's clear, then get help pushing it up and forward.

I have gas pistons (thanks Dave), but its still challenging single-handed, so John G may be right - you may have to have the stength of Hercules to open it up.

Edited by - on

steveo
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2009 : 06:11:55

Thank-you very much for the info. My helper (my Daughter) told me that it was not hitting the mast. It gets easily to the 9 oclock but then gets nasty with me. But, now I realize I was not putting forward motion effort on the top hence fighting its intended movement. It was not a strength thing. It was a brain thing and mine was not working fully. All of the hardware seems in very good shape. So...

Appreciate the advice!!

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2009 : 15:42:10

I also find it easier...more balanced...when popping-the-top, to have the sliding hatch closed.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2009 : 16:23:55

Oy vay!! The pop-top is a pain to get up! But once it's up, it makes our little boats the pride of the fleet! Standing headroom in the cabin, plenty of ventilation on hot days, and nice views all around!

Mine gets stuck half-way when the boom vang is not fully slacked off.

My pop-top gets stuck when my bimini cover slides aft along the top of it and then catches on the little swivel clips that hold my companionway and sliding hatch cover.

My pop-top gets stuck when I have not removed the companionway and sliding hatch cover, and the sunbrella blocks the last inch of motion towards the mast.

My pop-top gets stuck when I have not pushed the jib halyard, the boom downhaul and the cunningham lines out of the way and the top cannot move the last half inch to reach the mast in order to be latched there.

I love my pop-top, and have pulled a few back muscles proving it, but in fact, I find it quite remarkable when my pop-top goes up with the first try. And I blame it on this Association, because I would not have added all those refinements if I had not learned so much on this discussion board. So it's all your fault that my pop-top won't go right up!

Happy sailing!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2009 : 19:45:12

Yes, moving the top back just far enough to get the lines out without having it come crashing down is a little tense, but I face the issue far less often now. It does seem easier to lift with the hatch and center of mass forward. My 65 y/o bones can still do it, but it is a lot easier with Chris helping. I should really get the struts.

Edited by - on

steveo
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2009 : 20:14:28

All good info. Especially the hatch closed part !! THANKS!! You guys are awesome. My back thanks you!

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2009 : 04:01:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 ...My 65 y/o bones can still do it, but it is a lot easier with Chris helping. I should really get the struts.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Dave,My 65 y/o bones sympathize with yours but my doctor says weight lifting is the best thing you can do to ward off osteoporosis so I'm not getting the struts. But, since women are more prone to osteoporosis, I might let the admiral raise the pop-top,once in a while.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2009 : 10:34:55

I've had the pop top up once in 21 years.....the first week I owned the boat. I still haven't found a need to exert that much energy after a long says sail, for a few more inches of head room.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2009 : 10:56:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 I have gas pistons (thanks Dave), but its still challenging single-handed, so John G may be right - you may have to have the stength of Hercules to open it up.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Don't thank me--it was Bill, your immediate PO, who bought them after he threw is back out the first time he raised the top. When he was looking at Passage, I demoed the top to him and told him it was heavy... I think it was a reason for them selling the boat. I wonder if he properly and fully charged the struts. It is true, though, that the initial horizontal orientation of the struts isn't going to give you much help in the initial upward push.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/13/2009 11:00:03

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2009 : 04:43:41

Not that "I" have a problem lifting the pop top, given my strength and agility, but it seems like it one might be able to incorporate a line to a wench to raise the top. I’m sure one of our engineer friends could look into that. I usta lift weights but they were too heavy, and as I age I’m sure I’ll be looking into this myself soon enough, or get back to the weights.
I always run a line from the supports around the front of the mast, easy enough, to act as a backup for the “mast catch” to hold the top up. I’ve found the vibrations on the boat will loosen the screw and the thing falls down while I’m unaware. Should the top drop it could cause some real damage to someone.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2009 : 05:29:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 ...a line to a wench...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Let us know what line works best on that wench... Some of us could probably use to upgrade our lines.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/14/2009 05:31:23

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2009 : 05:44:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye

I always run a line from the supports around the front of the mast, easy enough, to act as a backup for the “mast catch” to hold the top up. I’ve found the vibrations on the boat will loosen the screw and the thing falls down while I’m unaware. Should the top drop it could cause some real damage to someone.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I do the same thing for a back up. I have installed a small pad eye on one of the aft stantions, and attatch the vang to it. This also makes a great clothes line

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2009 : 06:21:42

I love malapropisms ... ya know, seems like you could use the vang to raise the top. Just dreaming here...

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2009 : 11:00:32

It sounds like you have found a solution but one thing you might look at is the bolts at the base of each leg.
Mine were loose so I tightened them and the pop top got too hard to lift.
Not too tight not too loose is the key.
It might help to lubricate the pivot points and check the tightness of those bolts (they just take a flat head screw driver).

BTW I use the belt and suspenders approach to the pop top. I tie a line from the front legs around the mast as well as the "J" hook. I've had it come down when the launch went by a little fast.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2009 : 20:16:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 I've had the pop top up once in 21 years.....the first week I owned the boat. I still haven't found a need to exert that much energy after a long says sail, for a few more inches of head room.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You wouldn't happen to have a pop top enclosure for your boat that you might like to sell would you?

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2009 : 11:33:23

I have the enclosure and it's brand new. I'm saving it for the new owner, sometime in the dim future.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2009 : 17:09:51

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 07:52:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 I have the enclosure and it's brand new. I'm saving it for the new owner, sometime in the dim future.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My enclosure is approaching 30 years old and it too looks like brand new. I've only used it once in the past 7 or 8 years myself and I'm not sure if the previous owners ever even used it. I aquired an extra one a few years back (I since sold it), and it too looked brand new. Every other year or so, I raise my pop top to clean underneath it.

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 11:38:03

Anybody ever find yourself standing on your raised pop top? I have done that twice now without thinking as I maneuvered around the boat doing other things. But there was no creaking, wobbling or cracking noises, surprisingly. I know it's a bad idea (and downright dangerous) but I was impressed it held me up no prob. But no I will hopefully not test it again.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 10/22/2009 : 13:04:04

Yes I have Steve. Put an anchor light on a halyard (why use the on-board battery?) and was tying it off to the mast when I realized what I was doing, but it was solid as can be. Nevertheless I carefully stepped off of it. Next Morning after making sure the pop-top stop was very tight I climbed back up and untied the light.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/23/2009 : 10:56:22

This topic has gotten me thinking about another boat mod. I'm 6' tall and seldom never raise the top because I can stand inside with only a slight stoop. I've only bashed my head once, when i ran into the hinge mechanism for the pop-top. It hurt, and bled like hell.

The mod idea is to raise the pop-top about four or five inches and fill in the gap with sandwhiched plywood and fiberglass. This would eliminate the need for the pop-top and hardware while affording additional head room and the handy shelf space the raise top provides. The exact height would have to be determined so that the perminently raised top does not interfere with the vang.To be done right the job would have to be done professionally and therefore cost a bit, but still very doable.

I know of two friends who have had similar work done for their boats, one, a hard-dodger for a Pierson-Triton (one of the origial fiberglass sailboats), and the other, a cabin top as described above for a Tartan 10. So, I know it can be done - maybe even a comination perminent top with integrated dodger. The question is, am I willing to put the time and money into the job on a perfectly good boat.

Edited by - aeckhart on 10/23/2009 10:57:26

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2009 : 18:43:55

Al - just wondering...what about the hatch boards?

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