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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Difference in Cat 250 Model Years

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oregonworld
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/14/2009 : 11:42:01

Hi all-

I'm contemplating a Cat 25 or a 250 for my first boat. I'm keen on a WB to save from having to buy a 3/4 ton truck. I have a 97 landcruiser with a 4.5l v6 and a tow rating of 5000lbs right now.

Anyway, as I am looking can anyone tell me how the boat has changed over the years. My price range is probably in the 1995-1999 range and as most things usually there are improvements in the first couple of years of production of a boat or vehicle.

How does the 95, 96 stack up to the later models.

Thanks,

jared

Jared Cruce
1997 250WK "Inspiration"
#299
Honda 9.9
Ashland, OR

Edited by - on

oregonworld
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2009 : 11:43:11

FYI-

I do realize that the 25 doesn't come in WB. I asking strictly for help in the 250 models here.

Thanks again,

Jared

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2009 : 11:55:54

I don't think you have enough truck for even the WB version. Sorry.

To answer your question, though, I think that you'll find the biggest issue with the earlier models was with the rudder and , if so equipped, the wheel steering. The rudder was changed in the later years and the wheel steering system modified. Otherwise, there haven't been any significant issues that I've read about here.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2009 : 14:27:14

Another difference is the earlier models did not have the stern cat bird seats. I believe it was the 96 and earlier models.

Edited by - on

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2009 : 19:07:28

The older model MacGregor 26 footers, like the 26-D, are under 3000 pounds, water ballasted, and look like conventional sailboats not like the boxy new MacGregors. The 26-D is the pick of the Mac litter in my book because it has a dagger board instead of a swing keel. It can float in 18 inches of water with the dagger retracted. Anyway, I sold mine for under $8000 including a trailer, in favor of a wing-keel Cat 250 because of the Mac's tenderness and strong weather helm tendencies in winds over 10 mph. If you can afford to keep your boat at a dock that is soooo much more convenient and makes it a no brainer to get a fin or wing keel for the better performance.

Edited by - jbkayaker on 07/14/2009 19:08:53

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2009 : 20:21:48

Hi Jared... If you use our Search function above, looking for words like "tow vehicle" in the C-250 forum, you'll find a lot of related threads (and a few not so related). One recurring question is whether you plan to tow, launch, and retrieve often (like for every sail) or just occasionally (like the beginnings and ends of seasons). If the former, there's the issue of the time and effort to rig and launch a C-250, which is quite a bit greater than with, say, a 22-footer. You'll also see discussions of tow vehicle capacities relative a C-250 WB with a normal load, plus the trailer, for various types of trips (neighborhood vs. highway).

Hope that helps.

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willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2009 : 05:59:51

Jared,
I am not certain of exactly when it was changed, but the older versions do not have self tailing winches. A small enough compromise, particularly on a 25' boat, but I have found them to be like the electric windows on your car...no big deal until you have them and then you never want to go back.
Willy

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oregonworld
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2009 : 06:59:04

Thanks for the all the info. I plan on putting the boat on my local lake for the summer and taking it somewhere once a year on a road trip to the san juans or somewhere within a couple days drive.

I have seen several boats that are in my price range that are 1995-1998's but they are across the country. Info like the cat bird seats and the self tailing winches, rudder and steering are super cool. I'll make sure I take a look at those areas.

Also, does anyone know the weight difference between the C250 models and the c25 models? I'll do some searching on the forum.

Thanks

Jared

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2009 : 07:13:21

According to the Catalina site the 250 WB weighs 3250lbs (ballast tank empty) and the 250 WK weighs 4200lbs. These are the unloaded weights, of course, and additions such as wheel steering, outboard motor, etc will add some weight.

Edited by - on

oregonworld
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2009 : 07:17:01

thanks Randy-

Still up for showing me your 250 sometime?

Jared

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 According to the Catalina site the 250 WB weighs 3250lbs (ballast tank empty) and the 250 WK weighs 4200lbs. These are the unloaded weights, of course, and additions such as wheel steering, outboard motor, etc will add some weight.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2009 : 07:37:06

Don't forget the trailer weight. My Trailrite weighs 1200 pounds according to the mfg.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2009 : 12:43:37

Jared, I'd be happy to show yo the boat and go for a sail. I am around pretty much all summer.

Edited by - on

superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 14:28:37

Jared - I'm in Redding with our 250 moored in Whiskeytown Lake. Would be happy to take you for a sail around the lake and provide an overview of the 250 wing keel.

Bob

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 15:28:24

It's been a while since this question was asked, but I'll add what I can. The big differences where between the '96 and '97 version with the '97 getting the cat bird seats, the coaming step, the propane locker, a second reef point, a revised mast raising system using the trailer winch and a second generation rudder though the earlier models were offered a free rudder upgrade with only shipping expenses.

None of the changes are huge issues when considering a used boat. I've never missed having cat bird seats for example because I rarely have had more than two aboard and in fact am glad that my boat doesn't have them because they cause backstay interference on the wheel equipped model. If I sailed with more on board, I'd certainly be singing a different tune however recognizing that many find them a very very nice feature.

If you look at '95-'96 models, check to see what rudder it has and if the owner doesn't know, then take measurements and ask here. Ask if the main has had a second reef added. This is an important item if you plan to cruise or sail on larger lakes. The coaming step is nice but no big deal. Regarding the propane locker, again no big deal either way. If you do cruising, you will be tempted to yank it out anyway because the real estate is simply too valuable to a cruiser to burn on a dedicated propane locker. Again, I'm glad my boat didn't have one.

The revised trailer mounted mast raising system in '97 is safer than the earlier gin pole system. It might not be quite as convenient as it of course requires the boat to be on the trailer to use whereas the earlier system did not. Again, the earlier system is functional though made better by some mods and very careful attention to insuring the pelican hooks on the temporary baby stays are firmly latched prior to raising and lowering. A failure of a pelican hook latch with the early system would see the mast fall.

If the boat has a wheel, there was a significant change in the steering system in the 2001 model when it was changed to a pull/pull cable system. The early single cable system had both some failure issues as well as excess drag and play. Edson sent upgrade kits to all that they could with new set screws and rudder swing limiters but not every boat it seems got the retro kit and those kits didn't deal with the excess drag or play.

Also in 2001, a third generation rudder became stock. If your plans are to sail aggressive waters, the third generation rudder on the water ballast model is in my opinion inadequate though for most lake sailing it will be fine.

About fifty wheel steered boats have gotten after market open wire conversion kits. These are very nice and if a prospective boat has one, it is a plus because it solves steering failures and provides a very nice easy helm with no play.

Several boats have been converted to after market rudders other than the several iterations from Catalina.

Last, I hope that I haven't in any way produced any negative thinking about the C250. All boats have their issues and kinks. Very honestly I think it is safe to say, that model year is less of an issue than boat condition. Many years ago, I bought an '83 model C22 that was in meticulous condition much better than a couple that I'd looked at that were newer.

As to towing, I've towed my boat over 18,000 miles and it pulls well with a tow rating of 6500 lbs. A few miles to a slip is a different matter and can be done perhaps in second gear at a low speed with a much less rating. I would not attempt to haul distances with less than 5,000 rating. I think the boat, trailer, outboard and equipment comes in around 4700-5200 depending on what equipment is aboard.

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 08/02/2009 : 14:10:15

Jared, I will throw my $0.02 in as well. The catbird seats IMHO are a must. I can never get the crew out of them to help balance the boat. I have a tiller extension and very frequently inhabit one myself. Without a doubt the most sought out seat on our boat.

Arlyn is right about the rudder differences and I would look for the kick up rudder on a Water Ballast it is incredibly superior. We sailed for four seasons with the third generation before I talked Frank Butler & Gerry Douglas into selling me a kick up rudder. I would not make that a deal breaker as you can still get a kick up rudder.

I think the galley has a few differences but I do not know when any of the changes took place and I am not really positive about the differences. I believe some of the boats did not have the larger 10 pound gas tank. Also we have a 12 gallon water tank and some of the older boats only had a 5 gallon.

On the weight issue, this topic has come up quite a few times so I weighed Sea Major on certified truck scales a few years ago. The boat and trailer weighed around 5100 pounds. That is stripped down coming from winter storage. It had nothing in it, not even cushions, and it did not have the motor on it. I have always towed with a Tahoe with around a 6800 pound towing capacity, and it tows great the boat and trailer are well balanced. If you are just putting the boat in and out and towing it short distances your vehicle may be able to handle it. The water ballast can be blown out or just pulled up the ramp very slowly with the valve open and the water can be out before the car really ever gets the full load. One other thought you may be able to put a weight distributing hitch on your car (if not already equipped that way) which may increase the tow capacity. I think my Tahoe can tow another 1000 pounds if it had that type of hitch.

The mast raising system on the trailer is really nice and pretty safe and provides me with the ability to take advantage of free ramps.

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 08/02/2009 14:12:39

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