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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

250 WB sailing characteristics

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DogBoy
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/02/2009 : 08:29:31

My wife and I are looking for a small trailerable boat and are looking at the Rhodes 22, compac 23 & Precision 23. We are coming from a Catalina capri 22 and we realized that we are more the enjoy the water time sailors than performance oriented. As we were looking around we spotted a wheel steering WB 250 that is also in our budget, but it looks a bit odd to me. We are mostly daysailors, the boat will be in a slip on lake Mendota (Madison, WI). We will occasionally take it to green bay and door county and leech lake in MN and will stay onboard for those outings. We have two kids 5 and 2.5 and are planning for 3 kids. We think we would enjoy the extra space of a 25' boat, but since I have not sailed one, I have a few questions.

Is the boat tender? I'm thinking with the WB that its likely to heel more quickly and hold more heel in general, is that true?

Is it difficult to single hand with the cabin top winches? My wife likes to sit and enjoy the water and doesn't like me asking her to help tack as often as our small lake demands. I see some of you moving the winches to the coamings, does that make it easier?

I have sailed a few boats with a wheel and generally don't like it. Do you get used to the wheel steering and begin to appreciate it or do you always yearn for the feedback of the tiller? I like the idea of the additional cockpit space the wheel affords, but it comes at a cost.

For those of you who have sailed a capri-22 and a WB250, any comments on the differences? I expect the 250 probably doesn't pick up and go nearly as easily as the 22, but for cruising around the lake and for dealing with 3-4' choppy waves with 20 mph winds will the 250 give us a drier ride into the wind?

We have a minivan that has a 3500 lb tow rating and a secondary oil cooler. Boat is 2400 lbs dry and I'm guessing the trailer is at least 1000 lbs. Realistically I'm thinking its an inadequate tow vehicle, do you need a full on 1500 pickup or can you get by with the new frontier/tacoma's that are rated for 6k lbs for towing?

I have read a lot already and think the 250 is adequate for our needs, but even with our relaxed approach to sailing, I still want to enjoy the experience. Any feedback on the 250 compared to our other boats would be apprecated as well. Thanks!

[edited last comment for clarity that boat was adequate. I agree minivan not adequate to tow]

Edited by - DogBoy on 07/02/2009 10:53:03

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 09:12:45

I have a wing keel so I'll let others talk about the "tenderness" issue. But, I will say that I, too, am an "enjoy the water time" sailor and I don't think I'd take my 250 wing keel into 20 knot wind with 3-4 foot chop. It isn't because the boat can't handle it, it's just that the "enjoy the water time" somehow disappears in those conditions. Been there, done that, would rather not do it again. Other's here will tell you to go for it.

I also prefer a tiller on this size boat. Others will disagree.

I regularly singlehand (even with the admiral and crew aboard

)with cabin top winches. It's not difficult but, coaming winches will make it easier. If I ever get around to it, I have the winches, I just need to install them.

IMO, you do not have enough vehicle to tow it. My Trailrite trailer weighs 1600 lbs empty according to the mfg. Your boat, at 2400lbs empty will weigh considerably more when you attempt to pull it and its full ballast tanks from the water. Yes, you can pump the tanks out while in the water but, that requires a mod that others here have done. Don't forget the weight of whatever "stuff" you might have aboard.

Randy (Nautiduck), among others, has made the move you described from a C22 to a C250/steering wheel although he has a wing keel. I'm sure he'll comment soon.

Edited by - John Russell on 07/02/2009 09:14:48

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 12:47:06

Welcome DogBoy. Can I call you Dog?

We have a C250 Wing and moved up from a Catalina 22 fin. I would say that the 22 felt snappier performance-wise because it had low freeboard and was quicker to maneuver. However, the 250 is much more comfortable and a superior cruiser. We bought our 250 so that we could do multi-week cruises in the San Juans and it has filled that role wonderfully. The amount of cabin space in the 250 is way more than the C22 and the enclosed head is a very nice feature when out for a cruise.

We have the wheel steering and I do not miss the tiller. The wheel frees up cockpit space and is a platform for a cockpit table, binoculors, drinks and our GPS. I built a helmsman seat that goes above the fuel locker so I sit up high - the result is a great view of the water that I find better than sitting on the cockpit bench. Some put a cooler on the fuel locker and sit on that with the same results. Or, of course, you can stand. We upgraded to the pull/pull steering system and it added much better feel and precision than the stock system. Others swear by tillers and I respect that there are advantages to that approach too.

The C250 is happiest on her feet. While we do take ours to 35-40 degrees heel on occasion it really sails fastest at 15 or less. To do that in higher wind you will want to reef and furl. The other night we were out in about 19MPH winds gusting to about 27MPH. I had the first reef in on the main and the 135 genny furled about half way. She handled the wind and chop fine and we hit up to 6KTS close-hauled. If you leave all of the canvass up in a blow you will get rounded up. Our lake is typically 6-12MPH and with those winds we are full out with the 135 genny and the main and having a blast. Even in the 19-27MPH winds we were dry in the cockpit. Well, a little spray. [:)

While I always sail with my wife, she too likes to read and sun as we sail. I moved the winches back to the coamings and it is the best mod we have done - even when she does the genny work. Easy project and well worth it.

You will want a 1/2 ton pickup for a C250WB.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/02/2009 12:51:40

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 16:10:57

DogBoy, I suggest you take this boat out for extended sea trials and form your own opinion. I single hand my C 250 with the winches on the cabin roof but all lines aft to the cockpit. There are mods which can be incorporated to alive the roundup issues. The water ballast does not need a mod to empty the ballast in the water just a low volume air pump. Heeling is very much controllable with reefing of the main and Genny. I would look into a second reef for the main if not already there. My 99 Tacoma pulls my boat but the boat is basically empty with only the mast and engine installed. Make sure you get an owners manual and rig the mast and main accordingly. Lots of help here on this forum if you go through with the purchase.....

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2009 : 17:00:17

Kids on boats or any place requires dealing with attention spans. Kids are mostly not going to groove with sailing like you will. This means you must plan to burn their excess energy and on a sailboat the best way to do that is to provide a couple of good swim periods daily.

By now, I'm sure you've noted the 250 has an open transom and the precision and compac do not. An open transom will become your kids best friend because it allows them to get back aboard from swimming with minimal effort. Going over transoms is not friendly to recreational swimming from the boat. Not planning ways to burn the kids energy is not friendly to parents sanity.

The 250 (either model) is capable of the Great Lakes. I've sailed mine across Lake Huron's widest point (90 miles) several times without any concerns for doing so. The water ballast version in fact can handle Great Lakes Chop much better than larger center keeled boats. If you later decide you want to cruise the 250 on the Great Lakes, it will do so and very safely.

On the down side, the mini van will not haul the water ballast 250 unless it is one of the older GM Saffari vans. Those things would haul horse trailers and boats like the 250. A Chrysler product Caravan won't. I don't know of any front wheel drive vans that would be suitable. The tow weight of a water ballast is closer to 5,000 lbs. A 6,000 tow capacity would get the job done.

The wheel is no big issue either way. It actually makes life for crew who don't want to assist with sailing better as there is no chasing them around. The water ballast 110 headsail can be cleated to swivel cam cleats about 95% of the time and they can be handled from aft of the wheel. The wheel can be easily removed for swimming sessions. If you someday cruise the Great Lakes with the boat, a wheel will be a friend during cruising primarily because it reduces fatigue and provides standing exercise... something very helpful during cruising on a boat without standing headroom inside.

I upgraded from a C22 and can say the 250 is a much better performer with one exception. It must be kept on its feet but that is a must with a family aboard anyway.

Yes, the 250 is fairly dry in Great Lakes chop in a breeze. A characteristic of the water ballast is that it performs much like a full keeled boat resisting hobby horsing so it handles a seaway better than a center keeled boat.

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2009 : 18:38:43

A friend has the Rhodes 22 and the shrouds are pretty far outboard making him really worry about any brushes with the pilings when he puts her in the slip and has found below to be smallish. That said, it has a ton of convenience features like those swivel chairs, in mast main furling, a variety of engine and electrical set-ups.
The 250 will definately handle more weather comfortably. Yesterday I was out in 15 to 20 knot winds with white caps. I had 6 people, none of whom could sail on the boat, and because I had the main reefed, and just enough jib out to balance the sailplan, I cruised along comfortably <b><i>and safely </i> </b> at 6+ knots with a 15 degree heel. Reefing is critical!
Cabin top winches are problematic for single handing, but there are relatively inexpensive ways to manage that, particularly on lighter wind days by adding a cleat to the top of the coaming and looping the sheet around the winch on its way back.
I have to agree with Bear here...try her out and see if you like her!

Edited by - on

DogBoy
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2009 : 08:06:37

well, after getting on board a 250WB boat I decided to go with a used Rhodes 22. The lake we are on has a very crowded marina with tight turns and narrow alleys, and the high freeboard of the boat makes me a bit uncomfortable with the handling. Once out of the marina it was nice and sails fine, but I would dread the docking experience every time so I have opted for the smaller boat. Thank you all for your advice though, because I really was torn prior to getting on the boat. It was the best advice I've gotten yet.

Fair winds!

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