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Std Rig Mainsail on a Tall Rig

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Blue Nose
1st Mate

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67 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/08/2009 : 11:19:28

What would be the effect on performance if you put a standard rig main on a tall rig and raised the boom to accomodate the shorter luff? Would it have a significant effect on speed or performance?

Thanks

1986 C-25 FK Tall Rig
"Blue Nose"
Mobjack Bay, Virginia

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 11:32:15

Look at it from a PHRF perspective...It is between 6 and 9 seconds a mile slower if you switched rigs entirely.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5882 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 11:49:28

There's a very simple solution that wouldn't require you to buy a new sail. You could have a sailmaker install a flattening reef on your existing mainsail. A flattening reef is a reefing cringle in the leech of the sail, about a foot above the outboard (aft) end of the boom. A line runs through the grommet to the boom. You ease the mainsheet, pull on the flattening reef line, and that pulls the aft end of the boom up to the reefing cringle. It enables you to install a bimini that is nearly the same height as the bimini on a standard rig boat. If you want even more clearance, you can install the flattening reef cringle a little higher, and you can also install another cringle in the luff of the sail at about the same height, and that will raise both ends of the boom even higher than it is on a standard rig boat. The benefit of doing it that way is that you can still use your whole mainsail, without the reefs, whenever you want to race or when you want to sail in light air. Installing a reef cringle shouldn't be very expensive.

Reducing sail area also reduces your boat speed a little bit, but if you're just messing about, or casually cruising, max speed isn't particularly important anyway.

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Blue Nose
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 14:13:23

I really have no intention of racing. I enjoy sailing just to cruise and relax so 6-9 seconds per mile equals about 1/2 of one percent or less in speed loss if I did my math right. A good sailor can trim the sails and make up for that without even thinking. (Not that I am a good sailor but you get my point) I don't think I could even notice a 1/2 percent speed difference if I wanted to.

How difficult is it for a sail repair shop to cut the top of the sail to be closer to a Standard Rig?

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 15:19:19

The tall rig mainsail is 3 ft. taller than a standard rig main, and the mast is only 2 ft. taller, which is why the boom rides a foot lower. So, you would not want to cut down a tall rig main to the size of a standard rig main, just shortening the sail by 1 ft. You should be able to do that using the flattening reef as mentioned above, along with a cunningham grommet at the luff, without cutting the sail. Perhaps your sail already has both, mine does. Another option would be to look for a Capri 25 main. It is 1 ft. shorter than a tall rig C-25 main. Shortening the sail by 1 ft. will also likely raise the boom to a point above the sail track gate on the mast, so be careful when you douse the main. If you don't have the cover plate kit that closes the gate, your boom could pop out of the track when you bring the sail down.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 15:38:56

That'd be pretty small--a full hoist would put your boom 3' higher than normal for a TR (like 8' above the cockpit sole). 1' or 1-1/2' off would be better. You could also save the sail in case you sell the boat, and look for a used sail from some other boat, with about a 1' shorter luff. Keep in mind where that would position your gooseneck relative to the mast gate. You don't want any possibility of the gooseneck reaching the gate when under sail--that could be a catastrophe.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/08/2009 15:39:57

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2009 : 18:34:59

I've thought about this more than a few times myself. A tall rig on the Puget Sound is more sail that I generally need. As Anthony (Piseas brother) said, "Steve, this boat moves differently from yours".

What if you simply raised the standard main leaving the boom in place where it is? I'd end up with about 33 square feet less sail up or so, and the top of my main just wouldn't be at the top of the mast. This seems to be a win-win situation, less sail area overall, and less up at the top which would help reduce heeling.

Could my rear-lower reef cringle be used for the flattening reef, or is that way too deep? It's about 3' up the main. I like the idea of the flattening reef.

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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1757 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2009 : 06:54:17

Not being a racer and not really focused on the stats -- but, like you, more a relaxed cruiser, I think the answer is if you replaced your tall rig main with a standard rig main you would have less sail area (e.g. slower) with either and/or a little of both the main not going to the top of the mast (preferred) or the boom being higher (which changes your center of gravity.) If you are trying to reduce heal then keep whatever sail lower -- which is one of the effects of reefing. As Dave pointed out make sure the gooseneck is not too close to the mastgate. I too have a TR/FK and choose to get a tall rig sail with two reef points so, if I felt overpowered I could reef way down. So far I have never needed to use the second reef but I am glad I have it. Sail trim, et-all, is a science/art in itself and really requires playing with your specific boat, conditions and sails. By time I figure it all out, fall comes, the boat is on the hard, and by the next spring I have forgotten all I learned!

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2009 : 08:16:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 ...Could my rear-lower reef cringle be used for the flattening reef, or is that way too deep? It's about 3' up the main. I like the idea of the flattening reef.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not to flatten your entire sail. The main thing a flattening reef does is take out the "bag" or "shelf" at the foot of the sail, as shown in [url="http://catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/sdflatreef.asp"]Bill Holcomb's Tech Tip[/url]. Release it for light-air or downwind sailing to get the designed (or age-induced) fullness.

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Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2009 : 03:57:30

Blue Nose, this feels like another tall-rig/bimini related question. I've posted several times inviting you to look at my tech tip about this issue, and/or to look at my boat, which is berthed near you. If you're going to get a new sail anyhow, consider a Capri 25 sail, which splits the difference between the TR and SR. OR, have a main custom made for your dimensions, which isn't going to be significantly different in cost.

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Blue Nose
1st Mate

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67 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2009 : 18:20:56

Even Chance, thanks for the offer. i will take a look next time I am around Urbanna. usually when i am in Mathews I'm sailing or maintaining the house so i don't get over your way often. Hope you got to sail today - it was great! Thanks

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.