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thru deck wiring for my mast

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tight
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/12/2007 : 21:00:49

I don't have enough wire to connect my plug on my deck. I have tried to pull the wires through but they have no give. Do I have to run new wires from inside my cabin up thru my deck? If so, how? The wire's seem to be permanent and have no flexibility.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2007 : 21:09:03

When I replaced my connector, my wies too were short. I had just enough to make the connections. I had to use needle nose pliers to push the wire into the connector, then tighten the screw. If it too short to do it this way, then I would guess you might have to rerun. I think there was a prior discussion on running the wire.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 11/12/2007 : 22:36:17

I reran new wires. I had the mast rewired, LED anchor light installed and new Bow/Deck Light housing installed. The wires inside the deck were oxidized and there was not enough slack for cutting off the ends and using the existing wires. The wires were in snug and and some indicated they were sealed inside the cabin/liner. I drilled thru the liner thru the deck connector hole angling the drill so the hole came out forward of the bulkhead (near the Porta-potti). Then ran the wire along the port side hull behind the seats to the new panel I also installed (photo on my website).

But, after I was fully done with my wiring job, I was trying to remove the wires inside the bilge that lead up to the deck connector thru the mast column. A strong tug and the wires came out ! So....at least on the '89, the wires to the deck connector were not sealed in cabin top/liner but because the hole in the liner makes for a tight fit with the wires, they seemed to be sealed in. If the hole could be perhaps widened, you may find that there is enough slack from the wire in the bilge to pull it up a bit thru the deck connector - If you have same wiring like my '89.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 08:23:22

Bill,

Catalina Yachts ran the boat wiring when they permanently sandwhiched the deck and headliner together. This means that you'll most likely need to run new wiring from the deck plug to the electrical panel, which is not that difficult.

The one thing that bothers me about the way Catalina ran the wiring between the liner is, one errant screw could pierce both negative and positive wires with potentially ugly results.

Edited by - dlucier on 11/13/2007 08:23:43

tight
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 17:30:45

Thank you for all of your responses.. I had a feeling that catalina ran the wiring harness when forming the boat.. I have hesitated to pull on the wiring without more information.. Do I just abort the old wiring and run new wires? What is the best procedure?

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 18:25:30

After the second 4-pin, deck-mount connector fell apart due to being installed in tight quarters with short wire ends, small screws and10 thumbs, I've had enough. Not to mention that you have the deckmount "holes-up" for all the elements to mess with as mentioned above. Whiel the mast is down, I am going to replace the whole thing with [url="http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T073/0355.pdf"]cable-mount connectors like this[/url]. And if I cannot find proper end-caps I will buy two sets and make my own "protective plugs". I may try "pulling" the cable out thru the deck for some length (with the alternative being breakign it and installing a new cable)

Edited by - on

GaryB
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4299 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 21:28:06

Ilnadi,

Unless I missed something it looks like they have the endcaps listed for the connectors in your link. See Figure #6 in the link.

My deck connector has a protective cap attached.

GaryB
'89SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 11/13/2007 21:29:57

GaryB
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4299 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 21:36:45

Larry,

I'm planning to rewire my mast soon and would like to replace the anchor light and possibly add a VHF antenna.

Do you have a Part # for the LED anchor light? Did you use the Catalina Direct pre-made mast wiring kit or did you just run your own wires?

Any suggestions on doing the job?

Thank in advance!

GaryB
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah, TX

Edited by - GaryB on 11/13/2007 21:37:19

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3411 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 22:30:53

Gary,

Here is the link for the OGM 2NM USCG approved LED Anchor light that I purchased: https://secure.orcagreen.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16142&cat=0&bestseller

It also has a photodiode that turns it off when sunlight hits the light in the early morning hrs.

I had the mast rewired while my boat was in my finger slip. I had someone take down the mast and rewire it and hook up the fittings/housings. The anchor light needs one of the brackets they sell to mount it to the top of the mast but I ordered the wrong suppoprt bracket. The guy I had working the mast had a bracket made locally and that worked out fine. The wires used in the mast were separate wires but run thru a conduit/tube that is inside the mast. By the end of the job, the guy working the job was about burned out and vowed to never do another mast rewiring while the boat was in the water. As it was, he installed the wires wrong to the deck connector since my running lights came on when one of the other switched was depressed.

I then got on with the summer season and then last winter, I replaced the deck connector and rewired the inside wiring to the mast. This work I did myself. I then installed a new 8 circuit breaker switch panel made by BCP, hooked up the mast wires to the right switches and eventually migrated most of the other circuits to the new switch panel which is now easier to get to from the cockpit without having to go down the steps looking for the original panel.

The inside wiring to the mast, I used mast wire sold by ANCHOR company. I believe it was 5 wires in one sheath. The mast needs 3 for the Steaming Light, Deck Light and Anchor light plus one for the negative. The 5th wire I branched off and used it to hook up a fan located on the bulkhead facing the cabin. Photos on web site.

Believe I bought the mast wire from following website:
http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine%20Grade%20Wire/Mast%20Cable/

Edited by - OLarryR on 11/13/2007 22:32:24

GaryB
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Response Posted - 11/13/2007 : 22:57:56

Thank you Larry, I appreciate the information!

How hard was it to get the mast down in the slip. I'm most likely lo9oking at having to do this.

Gary
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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3411 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2007 : 06:02:34

Gary,

Unfortunately, since I used a local saiboat mechanic to do the mast rewiring, I was not present for all the work. I was not there for the mast lowering or raising but understand he had one or two helpers. My marina is a stickler for marina work, safety and etc related to the marina dock access and so the boat had to be repositioned forward in the slip and mast once lowered kept from obstructing Main Dock (we have for in this marina) so other boaters could have unobstructed access to the dock. I assisted a bit with the work but that was after the mast was already down.

I think he had 2 helpers (one maybe being a marina guy) to lower the mast but not sure how many he had to raise it. he did not complain so much about that effort. It was more the working on the boat with the mast rewiring and even though the boat was mostly steady, the motion while working the wires was just another juggling act. He kept getting confused over the wires inside the mast and believe discovered the mast had already been rewired once and not sure if he came across extra wires inside. This mechanic was retired from his main job and what was to be a part-time sailboat mechanic job turned out to be full time. I guess this was getting too much for him and he eventually stopped altogether about a month or so after my work was ...sort of conmpleted.

When he was hooking the wires to the deck connector, his assessment of the existing wires from inside the cabin leading to the deck connector was that at the deck connector the wires were oxidized and needed to be cut off a few inches to make new connections. But since there was no slack, he temporarily hooked up to the existing wires and globbed the outside connector hole with sealant...did not put the deck connector back on. Then I tok over the job during the winter (project) season and removed the sealant, figured out how to run new inside cabin wires...that's when I bought the ANCHOR Mast wire but used it inside the cabin.

My '89 had inside the mast a black tube in which the wires in the mast he threaed the wires through it. Believe it was duplex wires...so he used 2 of them for 4 wires needed. This may have been easier than using mast wire up the mast. Since the black tube inside the mast secured the wires anyway, they do not shake inside and do not make any noise. Not sure if all masts have that black tune inside but again on my '89 it was inside the mast. The possible difficulty with using ast wire in the mast is the branch off for the steaming/deck light combo housing. The duplex wires were easier to work with for that branch off. In regards to the black tube and threading the wires through it...he used the existing wires to pull the new wires through it. But this whole process takes a lot of looking and thinking....much more than actually doing the work. It is amazing how puzzling 4 wires can be but he pondered over it quite a bit. It did cost me a bunch for the job but if I actually added up the hours he spent on the job...I probably got it at a bargain price. Forget how much with the wire cost the mast wiring cost me but it was way more than $500 and less than $1000. The inside cabin rewiring, correcting the reverse switch hookup he did, installing the new circuit breaker panel which is the best part of the whole job...cost me $0 in labor. The more you can do your self the better. You will understand it better, have a sense of accomplishment (well only once completed) and save a bundle !

Edited by - on

Summers Eve
Deckhand

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USA
10 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2007 : 15:51:49

I just took off the deck connector from my 84 Catalina 25 tall rig. I couldn't get the bottom part of the connector off the wires because the head had broken off the little locking bolt. I can drill that out easy enough. BUT mine connector is a 3 pin. All I can find are 2 pin and 4 pin. I'm not too bright about this sort of thing so I appreciate and help and please keep it simple.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 11/18/2007 : 17:39:45

The four pin connector is for
1. Anchor light (+)
2. Steaming Light (+)
3. Deck Light (+)
4. Ground (Negaive)(-)
If you only need three pins, buy the four pin and leave one blank.
I suspect you don't have a deck light so your using 1,2 & 4.
Dan

Edited by - on

summerseve
Deckhand

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USA
6 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2007 : 13:03:26

Thanks Dan

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buzzardsolo
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2007 : 20:57:50

I just happened to tackle this project today. At least on my 1987, I found that the wires were NOT sandwiched between the deck and the head liner. I found that by removing the forward trim piece on the mast compression post and then all (most) of the screws attaching the port bulkhead, I was able to slide the top of the bulkhead forward just enough (1/2-3/4") to access the deck connector hole. The four-wire cable runs in the narrow gap between the top of the bulkhead and the headliner, not between the headliner and the deck.

The cable wouldn't budge until I slid the bulkhead forward, but now it slides pretty easily. The four-wire cable actually had about 2 feet of slack (that was doubled over) in the wire run above the port settee, so there was plenty of wire to pull up through the deck to the 4-pin connector. However, I'll probably end up replacing the wires. I decided to order a new 4-pin connector, so I won't be able to finish the project tomorrow as planned.

Also, to my surprise, when I pulled up the 4-pin connector out of the deck, I found that the four wires were not even properly attached to the connector. Instead of threading the bare ends through the contact holes and tightening the screws, the connector contacts were just resting on the four bare leads. It's amazing that they even used to work like that.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4299 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2007 : 18:55:37

I'm getting ready to replace the wiring in my mast. I haven't had time to look closely at the connector but after a quick glance I could not readily see how the fitting on the mast side of the wiring comes apart. Can anyone give me a hint on how to get this fitting apart?

GaryB
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/27/2007 : 15:31:46

THANK YOU buzzardsolo. I'm replacing wiring in a 1984 and that was a great bit of information to have.

regards.ray

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 11/27/2007 : 17:08:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 THANK YOU buzzardsolo. I'm replacing wiring in a 1984 and that was a great bit of information to have.

regards.ray
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey Ray, Let me know how it goes for you. I have 1984 also and if your wires are not glassed in I'll replace mine too.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 11/28/2007 : 09:57:38

Deck Mast Wire on 1984 Catalina 25

I've just bought a catalina 25 that I've worked on for several years only becoming full owner this year. I've worked on glass boats all my life. I also own a 22 foot Stamas powerboat which is laid up THICK and is the hardest resin I've seen. Blogging on all the boat work at www.rayswords.us

I'll post and contact you directly when I look at the top of the bulkhead. I've removed the deck fitting and I found no play from the wires.

regards.ray

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 11/29/2007 : 08:36:12

Thanks Ray I look forward to hearing what you find. Complements on your web page. I had a small studio specializing in product photography and advertising graphics, many years ago before submitting to the golden handcuffs of a, non-photographic, engineering related career with a major corporation. So I know what I'm talking about when I say that your pic's are first rate.

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ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2007 : 11:30:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by buzzardsolo
 Also, to my surprise, when I pulled up the 4-pin connector out of the deck, I found that the four wires were not even properly attached to the connector. Instead of threading the bare ends through the contact holes and tightening the screws, the connector contacts were just resting on the four bare leads. It's amazing that they even used to work like that.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> My guess is that the wires were so corroded and work-fatigued that they parted while removing the connector. I'd remove the little screws and see if wire (or wire dust) falls out of the connector.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 11/30/2007 : 08:06:43

Handcuffs for me too!

I'm a full time medical photographer (Ophthalmic) 9 hours a day M-F in the bowels of a dark cold hospital injecting old people with dye. My boats are my time in the sun.

regards.ray

Edited by - on

GaryB
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4299 Posts

Response Posted - 12/02/2007 : 19:41:23

Well, I finally got a chance to look at the deck fitting for the mast lights today. Someone in the past had apparently cut the original wires back a couple of inches and then used butt end wire connectors to add some additional length to the wires. Problem is the wire connectors are jammed down into the hole in the deck and will not pull out.

I didn't have to mess with it too much but will have a fun time trying to pull new wires through to the deck.

From Larry's earlier post I assume the wire runs up through the mast post in the cabin? Is there some way to access the wire along the mast post (can the trim on the mast post be removed to expose the wiring)?

Thanks in advance!

GaryB
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah, TX

Edited by - GaryB on 12/02/2007 19:44:03

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 12/02/2007 : 22:05:26

If your Catalina is like mine (wire configuration) and you want to try and reuse the old wiring (which is easiest solution but I did not realize the wire was not encapsulated in the cabin liner until after I strung new wires), then check in the bilge for the casing that encloses the mast wire. On my boat, the black casing is just under the port side lip of the bilge cover opening. Then grasp the casing/wire as close to the mast column as you can and see if there is any slack from under the bilge area. If there is, then go back to the deck connector and with it removed, see if there is some way you can get a grip on the mast wire and try to pull it up even if it is tight. If you cannot pull it up, then see if there is a way that you can somehow widen the hole so the wire is not so snug a fit. Maybe you can drill a small hole (being careful not to cut thru the wire) and then continue to work on loosening that area up so you then can see if it is possible to pull that wire up. If you cannot pull the wire up (no way , no how) then resign yourself to rewiring mast wire inside the cabin. Once you thread a new wire thru a drilled hole also accessible thru the deck connector, then the rest is easy...just takes time to ensure each wire is hooked up properly.

I used the opportunity when rewiring to install a new circuit switch panel. I placed it just below the sink where it is accessible from the cockpit. The old panel is still working as well but it is under the steps and a pain to get to when putting on the nav lights.

Edited by - on

GaryB
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Response Posted - 12/03/2007 : 20:10:22

Thank you Larry! I'll give this a try next weekend. I'd bet my boat (#5862) is the same as yours.

Do you think there would be any chance of pulling a new wire down through the hole from the deck and then feeding back to the back?

Does the wire go down through the bulkhead or does it angle over directly to the mast column? Looking at it yesterday it looked as though the hole might angle over to the mast column and could be enlarged enough to make feedng the wire through easier.

GaryB
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 12/03/2007 20:11:40

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 12/03/2007 : 22:38:25

I believe it goes over to the mast column. When I gave the line a tug from the bilge area, it just dropped down the column. They may have notched the area between the liner and cabin top to allow it to go over to the mast column.

If you are thinking about feeding a new line thru the same hole and down the mast column......if there is any way that you can connect a small line to the end of the wire, that may help to pull the line thru and then use the line to pull the new wire through. One of those electrical snakes may work as well except the tunnel may be too narrow and then goes thru some turns over to the mast column and that may be too hard for a snake to go through.

Edited by - on

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