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Looking for Help with bottom job

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RedRedWhine
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USA
167 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/01/2009 : 13:55:09

As some of you my know I did a bottom Job this past summer on <i>Red Red Whine</i> it did not turn out well If you search the forum you will see the post i did. Well i pulled her out of the water in November (needed to save on slip fees to pay for a new bottom job) Well I am trying to decide if I do it again myself or I take it to Californian and have someone there do it. I am not sure what it will cost (if you have an idea let me know). If I do it myself I will need to know what went wrong. I think the paint was the problem. Maybe the prep work was not right. I cleaned the bottom of the boat using a grinder and sanding disk. It was roughed up enough. Maybe because the paint job was the first on the bottom it needed a primer. Any ideas would be great. Also if you know of a good place in Marina del Rey or San Diego where I can get a price on a bottom job let me know. Thanks.

PS Check out his link to see photos of the paint pealing off.
http://gallery.me.com/bolter303#100084

Don and Kim Young
Las Vegas Nv
http://web.me.com/bolter303/Our_World/Welcome.html

Edited by - RedRedWhine on 02/02/2009 09:06:46

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 15:01:27

Don,
In looking at your photos, I noticed that the peeling paint seems to be localized where the paint seems darker than the surrounding pant. Do you know what caused the darker areas?

I'm planning on pulling my boat & having it soda blasted & starting from scratch. I think I can have the blasting done for around $400 or so up here, not sure what it'd cost in the SD area. After that, I'll probably put down a couple coats of Pettit Trinidad SR, which should be good for a couple of seasons.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 15:28:29

It sounds like the problem is that you didn't apply a primer. If you used Interlux paint, I believe most of their bottom paints require a primer to adhere to bare fiberglass. If you strip the old paint and apply a primer, and then apply the bottom paint, you should be OK.

The following hyperlink will take you to the Interlux website that explains their recommended procedure and materials for covering bare fiberglass:

http://www.yachtpaint.com/USA/boat_painting_guide/pdf/antifouling/fiberglass.pdf

I'll add one caution. Interlux recommends that you allow the primer to cure for a specific time, and then promptly apply the first coat of antifouling. Follow that procedure carefully, because it determines how well the paint will adhere.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/01/2009 15:31:39

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 16:15:09

Did you use a solvent to remove the mold-release wax? It is applied to the mold before the gelcoat is sprayed in, so that the finished hull can be pulled out of the mold. That wax is often the culprit when bottom paint doesn't adhere to a relatively new hull.

What Steve says about primer can be very important. Don't let it set up longer than the instructions specify--many primers are supposed to be slightly tacky when the paint goes on, for best adhesion. Plan your day to allow both steps to be completed.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/01/2009 : 16:39:38

Two questions; what year is the boat and was there previous bottom pain done before? I do mine every year and never had that problem. Looks like algae forming in some of the places were the pain came off. If so this must be removed before any paint applied.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2009 : 00:58:18

I used VC-17 directly on the bare bottom with no primer (after removing old ablative paint). No need for primer with VC-17 as I recall. I made sure to wipe the hull with Acetone before applying the paint. Only had a single fist size area that peeled off. Resanded that area, cleaned with Acetone and painted again. No problems so far and the paint seems to be sticking quite well.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 02/02/2009 01:00:41

RedRedWhine
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2009 : 09:04:19

Thanks for all the responces.

delliottg: In the pictures the dark area are still wet. The boat just came out of the water. I think it is because there is water behind the pain, and it is taking a little longer to dry.

Steve: There was no primer used. The info on the can stated it was an option, and recomended but not required if the bottoms was striped clean. THe question I have is some people tell me to paint the bottom and as soon as it is dry to the touch it needs to be put in the water. When I did the paint it sat for a few days before it went in the water.

Dave: I completely striped the bottom using a grinder and a stiff grinding pad. THere was a lot of hard water sttached to the bottom. I will post some more pics from start to finish. After the grinding and sanding was done the bottom was pressure washed and since it was about 105 degrees it dryed in no time.

frog0911: THe boat is a 2003 and was droped in Lake Mead by the dealer in Marina del Rey. The PO did not have a bottom job done because he said it is fresh water and it was not required. Thats fine if you pull the boat out of the water every day, but it has been in the water since 2003.

Steve Blackburn: I plan on using VC-17 the next time around. My plan is to strip the bottom "again", pressure wash, dry, wipe with acetone and apply paint. Do I need one or two coats? How long between coats and when does it have to go into the water after the last coat is applied?

Thanks for all the help. I am not sure if I want to do this myself again. If it does not work it willbe a waste again. I am going to call a few places today and see what they say it will cost. I will let you all know how it comes out.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2009 : 09:26:49

Don, before you start the job again, call the paint manufacturer's customer support 800 number (It's printed on the label of the can) and tell them about your previous problem, and exactly how you plan to do the job this time. Ask them specifically whether you should use a primer. (Even if it isn't required, you might consider applying one. It won't take much time or effort, and it will probably increase the chance of success.) I have called the tech people at Interlux 2-3 times, and always got very helpful information. I haven't called them for about 3 years, but in the past did <u>not</u> get an automated help line. They connected me with a very helpful, living person. It's well worth a few minutes of your time.

Edited by - on

RedRedWhine
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2009 : 14:04:26

Well I have spoke to thee or four boatworks shops from Santa Barbara to San Diego. They all tell me the same thing. The boat needs a 2 part epoxy primer prior to the anti-fouling paint. They all are about the same cost $1800 to 2000. Ouch! That includes everything, they strip the old paint to the new 2 coats anti-fouling on the epoxy primer and a third at the waterline. I am not sure what I will do yet. They all say that the anti-fouling paint needs to be place when the primer is just a little tacky. The chemical reaction helps it stick. This will be hard for me to do by myself on a trailer. I got a lot of information from Neil at Driscoll Boatworks in San Diego. Does anyone know anything about this shop? Let me know what you all think.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2009 : 15:20:33

Driscoll has 2 boatyards in San Diego. There is one in Mission Bay right next to my boat. They do my bottom every 2 years. They are a well regarded shop with fair prices. Just the haul/pressure wash/paint/launch costs $550.

Do your boat in Mission Bay then be our guests on L dock for a few days, we can go sailing.

Edited by - on

RedRedWhine
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2009 : 15:54:23

Jim,

Thanks for the offer. I will be looking for some help when I am down there. I need some one to go through my rigging and show me a lot of things. I know the PO did not set up the reefing right. I also need help lowering and raising the mast as well as tuning the stays. I will keep you posted. The plan is to take her down on Friday March 7th. They said it will take week. We will than return on the 14th and put her in the water for the weekend and leave sometime Monday. Thanks again.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2009 : 17:44:52

Don, VC-17 recommends to apply 3 coats on a bare bottom but I went with only 2. Took me 4 quarts. Instructions say that the primer is also optional. I believe you should consider a tar primer if used in salt water. I left my boat on the trailer for 2 weeks prior to putting in the water.

Here is the exact procedure I followed:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17650

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 02/02/2009 17:46:59

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2009 : 18:32:54

Don, we can do all that in the water. Call Marina Village and get a guest slip. http://www.marinavillage.net/m1.html

Make sure to tell them you are my friend, and to put you on L dock. Gary's old slip is open right now directly next to me.

Make sure you book with Driscoll's Mission Bay, not Driscoll's San Diego Bay.

March 14 I have a race, I'll be gone March 13 - 14.

Keep in mind the price I gave was for basic copper bottom paint, not VC-17, and not the first application - that costs $1500-$2000.

Edited by - on

RedRedWhine
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2009 : 19:02:32

Steve: The boat will be in fresh water 99% of the time. The primer is a 2 part epoxy and they do two coats of that than 2 coats of the paint. I am sure it is not V-17 but I will ask.

Jim: I will set it up at missing bay and let you know that dates. I am trying to coordinate it with my daughter's spring brake from USD so I can drop off the boat and pick her up. I have to see what happens at work over the next month have a big project going and can't leave until it is done. Neil told be that normally it is 500-800 bust since this is a first application on a bare bottom it will be $2050.

Thanks for the help

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2009 : 19:29:23

Driscoll's a nice yard. The company I used to work for down in San Diego was contracted to help them dredge their basin for the America's Cup. I had to spend days out in a Boston Whaler weaving in and out of glorious boats while we did the survey for it. Those were great days.

I just realized I'm thinking of Driscoll's in San Diego, not Mission Bay. Oh well, it was still fun.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2009 : 23:03:37

Don, bottom jobs are very dependent on two things: one the cleanliness of the bottom and the how close you follow the manufacturer's directions on the paint can. So you can do the job just as quickly as a marina and it will turn out just as good if you pay close attention to those two items. Like I said I have done mine since 1988 and only had a problem once two years ago and the manufacture replaced the paint and paid for everything except the labor. I must admit, when I was working, I took a weeks vacation and formulated a plan based on the manufactures directions for paint application to insure a proper job. I will be doing it in April so PennyII will be ready for the Mug Race. The one comment on the marina job is that it sounds like a two part epoxy barrier coat before they apply the bottom paint. If that is the case $1500 -$1800, all inclusive sounds about right.

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