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Docking

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Kendall
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/18/2008 : 21:34:32

The new marina gave me a forty foot slip. This is the smallest slip available because is is a powerboat marina and anything under thirtyfive is stored on the rack. Currently I just have some really long spring lines and lots of fenders. Does anyone have any advice for a difficult docking dilemma? I just dont want the boat bouncing around in a high wind.

As always, any help is appreciated.

Kendall of S.S.S. 247
'79 Catalina 25 sr/sk #961
Lake Worth, Florida

Edited by - Kendall on 12/19/2008 07:56:08

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2008 : 23:35:16

I am guessing that your dock doesn't have cleats at about 25' apart. If not I would install a couple. Might want to ask the marine about installing new ones or moving the existing ones. I am on a short dock and would give anything to have a dock that long.

Also, you should not need any more then two large bumpers.

Here is a short article on doing it right. The sailboat shows how I do mine.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 00:04:58

I agree with Chris, your marina should be willing to let you put in another cleat or two on your dock. Mine offered to pay for any cleats I thought I needed to install. They don't want your boat bouncing around any more than you do, so it's in their best interest to let you tie your boat up properly.

FWIW, we use three fenders on the dock side & two to three on the offside in case our neighbor gets friendly. We use bow & stern lines, and fore & aft spring lines, and then another forward spring line from our offside midship's cleat to pull the boat away from the dock slightly. That way the boat really doesn't even touch the dock, it's suspended between the five lines.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 07:00:00

It sounds like the slip is not only much too long, but also much too wide. As a result, if you tie up to all four pilings, as a 35-40' boat would do, you'll have to use very long dock lines, and it'll be very awkward to release the forward and aft dock lines, while pushing and pulling the boat from one side of the slip to the other, so you can reach the pilings and untie the lines. It can be done that way, but it's just awkward, especially if you're singlehanding, or have a crosswind or current.

For starters, I would suggest that you back into the slip, so you can pull out bow-first. I think that would generally give you more control coming out. I think backing out of a big, deep slip would be more difficult, because it's so much more difficult to control the boat's direction in reverse.

You don't describe how the slip is configured, and how the pier is configured for boarding the boat, and any factors such as prevailing direction of wind and current. If you furnish more details, it might generate more ideas.

Edited by - on

Kendall
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 07:54:49

Thanks for all the help. Ill try to make a diagram after school.

Edited by - Kendall on 12/19/2008 07:55:24

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 08:30:20

Do you have a dock finger/pier or just pilings? If you have a wooden finger, just ask to install 1 or 2 more cleats. Also, I have a few temporary cleats that you might look into as a stopgap measure. One is an eyebolt type with a spring and a T-bar at the bottom. you push it down between two dock boards and give it a half turn. No holes in the dock but you can position it where you need it. Again just a temporary measure.

Edited by - dmpilc on 12/19/2008 08:31:20

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 11:08:11

Another detail that can affect the strategy: Are you're docks floating or fixed? (Why do I get the feeling Kendall is talking to us during Chemistry class?

)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/19/2008 11:10:02

Kendall
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 12:28:23

The docks are fixed, they are made of aluminum? so no gaps to put a new cleat. And I dont know if we are going to keep her at this marina so I dont want to put more cleats on the dock. Attached is the diagram. (Not to scale)

Dave, I only had school today from 1020 to 1245.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 12:36:09

Kendall, how long is the solid dock? Are there any pilings or structure you can attach to on the underside of it? At our slip we tied a couple loops on floats and attached them to the underside of the dock. Admittedly, they are the last ropes to go on, but it gave us a midships tie-off without altering the dock. Unlike you, We don't have tides/current to deal with on our lake.

BTW - Chemistry Rocks. Its the crappy sociology, and visual arts classes you should be doing this stuff in.

Edited by - on

Kendall
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 12:50:33

I dont think there is anything to tie off too, but would have to check. The finger pier is probably about eighteen feet long.

On a side note, Why does every one always think all high schoolers are automatically enrolled in chemistry?

I have Bio I honors, and right now Im at home.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 13:35:30

Looks pretty clear to me that you have no other choice than to buy a 40 footers to fill in that empty space!

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 12/19/2008 13:36:04

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 13:46:55

Steve, he's a Sea Scout. Somebody needs to donate one! Any takers? My daughter's "Ship" is a 36 footer. Too bad iit's on the hard.

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 13:47:45

Early out for a lot of schools down here this week due to finals...hope yours went well Kendall.

I had a similar slip configuration and recommend the following:

1. Fashion a "rope hook" on each of the pilings. Makes the lines for easy retrieval plus they won't be soaking wet and floating in the water. Definitely don't want to chance getting a line caught in the prop.
2. Fasten a taught line from the end of the finger dock to the aft piling. Upon return, this will allow you to grab the line and "walk" the boat in and makes it easier to keep the boat tucked toward the finger dock.

Lastly, in my scenario, I always had bow in. It was always easy for me to back out of the slip and most "hairy" moments were upon my return, when I needed better steering control. Good luck.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 15:49:57

Sorry Kendall--I shouldn't refer to a bio-stud as a chem-geek!

Like Don, I preferred bow-in so I could get closer to the main dock for easy line handling. (My bow just about overhung the dock.) I dropped a springline on a midship cleat (on the genoa track) on the way in, and the rest was a snap. It seemed like backing out was easier than backing in, and I've done plenty of both.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2008 : 17:19:21

Kendall,
In your drawing, does the line from the port piling to your port stern cleat and to the dock (I'll call it line 1) stay in place when go sailing so you can pick it up easily as you back into the slip? Do you have a loop knotted into line 1 positioned so it can be slipped over your port stern cleat easily and quickly? What about moving line 1 to the middle piling and leave it in position, or do you need the length for tidal changes? I assume the second line from the port piling (I'll call it line 2) is left coiled up on the piling when you go sailing and it has to be retrieved each time. Perhaps it could be tied to line 1 (in front of the loop) when you go sailing so you don't have to go to the piling at all. The line from the starboard piling (I'll call it line 3): Do you leave it tied to the end of the finger pier when you go sailing as Don B mentioned in his item 2 above? I suggest knotting a loop in the fourth line (like line 1) to go over your starboard stern cleat and leave that line tied to the cleat where your pier and finger meet when you go sailing. When you come back, just slip the loop over your cleat. Then you can easily adjust all lines to position the boat where you want it before you go home.
Disclaimer: Being an inlander, I don't know if the loops would present a problem in a major storm.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2008 : 10:37:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 ...I don't know if the loops would present a problem in a major storm.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Loops are fine--you just feed them through the base of the cleat and then loop them back up and over the horns. If you have two lines on a cleat, you drop the first loop over the cleat, and then do what I described with the second--that secures both.

Kendall, if you want to use a springline for entering the slip, to stop and pull the boat into the finger dock and hold it there, it's best to have a midship cleat for that. Then you can easily use the engine to control the position of the boat against the dock by rotating slightly against the springline (and a fender). The winch or winch cleat can be used, but that's a little further aft than the ideal. (This has been discussed ad nauseam in other threads on docking.)

Edited by - on

Kendall
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2008 : 17:20:40

Wow, you guys are great. This is all great advise. Midships cleat are on the list, also the taught line to finger pier I think Ill do next weekend or so. Here are pictures of the slip. Once again, thanks for all your help.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3436 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2008 : 22:46:25

Looking at the last photo...I have no idea how you power away from the dock !

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2008 : 22:55:52

In the photos, I don't see all the lines that you show in your diagram, but given that you're using the winch cleats for your stern lines, they are serving reasonably as forward springlines, although in storm conditions I'd add lines crossng to the stern cleats, as on your diagram. But I'd say you're doing fine! Out of curiosity, how big is your tide range?

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/20/2008 22:59:23

Kendall
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2008 : 09:52:00

Not all the lines are attached in that picture as we just tied up as quickly as we could then got a piece of paper to figure it out.( A good technique from an old salt. ) There is a channel between the two rows of slips that is our egress from the marina.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2008 : 13:05:34

I would suggest that for a small boat in that large slip that you forget about using the pilings. Just use two lines from the bow and stern cleats directly to the finger pier cleats. You can then use the same 25 foot lines as spring lines as they come off the cleats (after one turn around) tying them off where there is good point (possiblly one of the shrouds). On the other side of the boat just tie off (in the case as in the picture)the stern like you did and then tie a second line off the shroud or maybe even the bow cleat back to the same point that the stern line is connected. That will place the boat off the dock and adequately protected from surge. When you leave, just untie the dock ends of your port side lines and when the boat moves over to the finger release the others and off you go. With this method you take your dock lines with you. If you want to dock bow in just adapt the tie points on the starboard side.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2008 : 17:04:06

You might be able to use bow and stern lines and only 1 spring line to keep the stern away from the dock. Since the slip is for a wider and longer boat each of these lines may be long enough to rise and fall on high and low tides.

My slip has pilings that I tie bow lines to and one spring line like this. I pull the bow over to each piling when casting off and leave the line on the bracket provided on each piling. Then I untie the stern and spring lines, and if there is a strong cross wind, use a temporary spring line (not shown) on the bow held around one piling and released when motoring out of the slip. I usually leave the 5 dock lines at the slip. (V symbol = dock cleat)

Edited by - on

Kendall
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2008 : 20:43:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 given that you're using the winch cleats for your stern lines
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Speaking of stern lines, other than the winch cleats, there is one cleat a good two feet forward of the stern on the port side, and nothing on the starboard side. Is this the stock setup on all c25s? I would think their would be two cleats directly on the stern under the rail.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2008 : 21:55:32

There was.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5895 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2008 : 06:36:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kendall
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 given that you're using the winch cleats for your stern lines
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Speaking of stern lines, other than the winch cleats, there is one cleat a good two feet forward of the stern on the port side, and nothing on the starboard side. Is this the stock setup on all c25s? I would think their would be two cleats directly on the stern under the rail.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
What's on the starboard side in that same location? Are there two holes, or does it appear that the holes were filled for some reason? Is there a mount for some other piece of hardware in that location? Perhaps the previous owner removed the cleat and mounted something else there.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2008 : 08:39:15

Looking again, it appears the older hulls with the vents for the "dumpster" have the stern cleats forward of the vents (outside of the coamings)--I see one on your port side. I have to suspect somebody removed the starboard one (or a storm did). My later model had the cleats at the corners where your vents are. The winch cleats can serve the purpose.

Edited by - on

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