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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Shrouds

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zebra50
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408 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/09/2008 : 12:22:09

any suggestions on what to use to clean the shrouds? Mine have been covered by cable covers for about the last 7+ years. They finally deteriorated to the point of becoming brittle. Thanks

Jay
Papa's Boat II
250WB #370
Blog:http://zebra50-boilingpoint.blogspot.com

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 12/09/2008 : 14:37:41

Jay, sounds like they need replacing rather than cleaning. I think 7 years is pretty good life span.
Steve A

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2008 : 14:47:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Jay, sounds like they need replacing rather than cleaning. I think 7 years is pretty good life span.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Nah--not in fresh water. Even in salt, they should go at least 15 years. (But it's your decision--if your mast falls down, I deny ever saying that!) Some soapy water and a brush should clean 'em up. A rigger told me tight-fitting covers are not a good idea... Rollers are OK--they don't tend to trap contaminants in the cable.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/09/2008 14:48:00

britinusa
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Response Posted - 12/09/2008 : 16:56:39

I'm with Steve, inpect them carefully particularly at the point where the wire enters the crimp at each end of the shroud.

If they look good, then as Dave says, rinse them well.

If any of the wires have fish hooks (run a cloth wrapped around the shroud along the entire length of the wire) then replace the shroud.

Let's know how it works out. (BTW, I just paid $180 for a pair of lower shrouds for my C250WB only 3.5 years old)

Paul

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piseas
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Response Posted - 12/09/2008 : 17:21:13

Dave, I remember reading your post re wire covers some time back. I checked mine that weekend and I was shocked. Mostly dirt and grime which I thoroughly cleaned and now check several times a year.
My covers are loose fitting and Piseas II is in salt water so I may have underestimated life expectancy than if in fresh water. But hearing the word brittle concerned me. I prefer staying on safe side. Don't want to be caught with my pants down! At least not in this situation.

Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 12/09/2008 17:23:20

GaryB
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Response Posted - 12/09/2008 : 19:29:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 But hearing the word brittle concerned me. I prefer staying on safe side. Don't want to be caught with my pants down! At least not in this situation.

Steve A
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think Jay was saying the cable covers got brittle.

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 12/09/2008 : 22:33:50

The folks at riggingonly.com strongly recommend against putting covers on shrouds and stays. They say it accumulates dirt and makes it hard to inspect. Looks like they are right.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 12/10/2008 : 09:16:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 ...(BTW, I just paid $180 for a pair of lower shrouds for my C250WB only 3.5 years old)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">But FL salt water is different from MO fresh, and trailering might be harder on them than sailing. Yes, inspect yearly... Some folks paint some nail polish (or car touch-up) around the cable where it enters the swage, and then watch for any indication the cable is gradually slipping out. The real culprit is "crevice corrosion" that occurs internally in stainless steel, and tends to happen down inside swage fittings. There's no economical way to detect it. I replaced the full set of stays & shrouds when Passage was about 16 years old--no visible problems, but 16 is enough in salt water. I think that amortizes out to under $50/year for a pretty important component.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/10/2008 09:20:34

piseas
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Response Posted - 12/10/2008 : 16:41:03

According to the New Owners Manual for the C25 & C250 on this site, Catalina states the following:

STANDING RIGGING:
Under most conditions, 1 X 19 standing rigging has a safe "working" life span of approximately five years: seven years under ideal conditions.
Factors which reduce the life of the wire are environmental factors such as high humidity (Florida, the Caribbean. and Gulf States): high salinity(Great Lakes. Gulf States. or mooring near a sea wall with constant SALT SPRAY): extremes in temperature; and industrial pollution (pulp mills, generating plants, acid rain and smog). High loading of the rigging as required in most racing boats also induces stress in the rigging system.
Many of us have to deal with at least one of these conditions and should consider replacing standing rigging at the five year limit.

Steve A

PS. Gary, You are right re brittle covers.

Edited by - piseas on 12/10/2008 16:49:15

John Russell
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Response Posted - 12/10/2008 : 17:04:46

Great Lakes are fresh water.

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OLarryR
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Response Posted - 12/10/2008 : 18:17:51

Rcmd'd times to change rigging seems to vary quite a bit. I am sure there are plenty that have not changed rigging in over 10 years and some pushing 20 years, while some may change it every 5 years. Fresh water versus saltwater, I am sure is a factor. I am considering changing my rigging and believe it is the original rigging now going on ~ 19+ years.

One way to explain it off that the person that gets 15+ years on the rigging either had it in freshwater, in a garage all that time or was just plain lucky for all that time. But I wonder just how many out there in forumland kept rigging on for say longer than 10 years and then actually experienced a failure ?

My thought is that if 5% that had the boat for say 10 years (in saltwater) or 15 years (in freshwater), then suffered a failure, I could live with that. Once the failure percentage creeps up greater than say 5%, then I would say it's time to change the rigging. Each of us will be more or less conservative in how we apply when it is time to change the rigging (given there are no obvious signs of deterioration). Just that when I hear about changing the rigging after 5 years use, that seems too short a period when probably the majority have had double that life on their rigging with no issues at all. Granted 19+ years on my rigging seems to be pushing it and I would say I am overdue to change the rigging. I have to start planning when to do that...and start ordering.

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GaryB
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4294 Posts

Response Posted - 12/10/2008 : 23:20:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 According to the New Owners Manual for the C25 & C250 on this site, Catalina states the following:

STANDING RIGGING:

Factors which reduce the life of the wire are environmental factors such as high humidity (Florida, the Caribbean. and Gulf States): high salinity(Great Lakes. Gulf States. or mooring near a sea wall with constant SALT SPRAY): extremes in temperature; and industrial pollution (pulp mills, generating plants, acid rain and smog). .

Steve A

PS. Gary, You are right re brittle covers.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I thought the Great Lakes were fresh water?

I'm not sure but I think my rigging may be original too. I've been thinking about replacing mine this winter after I get the boat on the trailer.

UPDATE!!!
Great Lakes
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

This article is about the North American Great Lakes.

A map showing the Great Lakes. The Laurentian Great Lakes are a chain of freshwater lakes[/u] located in eastern North America, on the Canada – United States border. Consisting of Lakes Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie, and Ontario, they form the largest group of freshwater lakes on Earth.[1][2] They are sometimes referred to as inland seas, Canada and the United States' Third Coast, or the Industrial Heartland.[/b]

Edited by - GaryB on 12/10/2008 23:28:19

zebra50
Captain

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408 Posts

Response Posted - 12/11/2008 : 19:02:02

thanks for all the input. The boat is a 98 wb with original rigging. I do check where the shrouds enter the crimp-still good. It is fresh water, no excessive hard wind use-family likes it rather tame. I will check for the fish hooks etc.

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 12/11/2008 : 23:44:19

I copied that directly from Catalina(as posted on our site). Guess their technical advisor made a error re Great Lakes.

My 03 has been in salt water-Pacific Ocean and not Great Lakes- from day one. Rigging is in very good shape. I am sure I can get several more years of use.
Steve A

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2008 : 07:25:57

I have to think that the rigors of trailering have an impact on the life of the standing rigging.
We put the mast up and take it down at least 12 times a year and trail the boat at least 1,700 miles a year, so far as high as 3,000 when we took JD to the BEER cruise. So that's somewhere in the region of 7,000 miles trailering and 40 Mast up, Mast down events.

During the 3½ years since new, I have bent the lower shroud T bolts (stepped back on them!) and the Backstay T bolt (caught when raising the mast early on, now we don't connect the back stay till the stick is up.)

We now do things slightly differently.
Backstay not connected till mast is up.
Shrouds are wirewrapped to the lifelines so that the turnbuckles are vertical, with thin wirewraps that snap off as the mast is almost up. And the wirewraps are put on after the mast is lowered to prevent bending as the turnbuckles are then out of the way of passing feet

Paul

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/12/2008 : 09:00:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 I copied that directly from Catalina(as posted on our site). Guess their technical advisor made a error re Great Lakes.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...or they meant Great Salt Lake. (...higher salinity than the oceans.)

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 12/12/2008 : 16:42:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 I copied that directly from Catalina(as posted on our site). Guess their technical advisor made a error re Great Lakes.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...or they meant Great Salt Lake. (...higher salinity than the oceans.)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OK, Someone call Catalina and ask. Its killing me!

Steve A

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