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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Honda Motor Problem

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smoken
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/09/2008 : 18:18:06

I have a 1989, ( I Think ), honda out board. This thing seems to run like a champ. While sailing with Jim on the west coast, I told him what i had for a motor. He said he used to have one and had a lot of problems with the jets getting clogged. Well today I started the engine like always, put it in gear and increased power to be sure everything was good. It was so I turned it off until I was ready to leave the slip. At this time it was like I was running on one cylinder. I did get the boat out and the engine ran but not like it should. Tomorrow I'm going to tear into it. Is this normal, the fuel is new, and it is a four cycle engine. Jim told me his would clog all the time to the point, he could remove and clean the jets while sailing!!! Any good advice out there, short of buying a new engine???
Thanks for your input.

1989 C25 SR/WK
Fellow Ship
Terry

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 19:04:11

The typical symptom of a clogged idle jet is that the motor will run fine at 1/2 throttle or higher but dies at idle. First you should try a good squirt of carb cleaner like B12 Chem Tool in the throat of the carb while it is running and rev'ed up a bit. It will almost die but this may clean it out.

After that, I'd make sure that both plug wires are firmly seated. Remove one at a time and see if the motor runs better or worse. Don't touch the plug wire unless the motor is OFF.

If the plugs are OK then remove and clean both jets. Joe (Sloopsmitten) has a great thread on how to do this with photos.

There is an idle jet which can be adjusted by screwing in or out. Try adjusting this just a little and see if it runs better. If not, pull it all the way out, then shoot your B12 Chem Tool in the hole. Insert back where it was.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 19:05:01

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 19:53:20

That is a pisser, it did that on the way to the crane last fall for the first time. It did it two or three times this season and I hoped it was old gas in a nearly empty tank. I am sorry to hear it is doing it again. The plugs are one year old. I hope it is something simple.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 20:25:53

One more thing... If your gas line is original equipment, change it. The old lines and primer bulbs are susceptible to damage from ethanol, causing little bits of junk to get into the fuel system. I also installed a Racor filter/water separator in the line to try to minimize the effects of ethanol, which includes the accumulation of water in the tank.

Do what Jim suggests to fix the problem, and maybe what I suggest to prevent a recurrence.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/09/2008 20:27:16

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3439 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 20:34:17

Besides all that was recommended, I am curious as to under what conditions you turned it off and then back on. I am wondering if it is possibly getting somewhat flooded if you shut it off when above idle speed and then when restarting later on, found it initially hard to start/starting on one cylinder.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 21:09:10

>"At this time it was like I was running on one cylinder. "

Well, It could in fact be running on one cylinder. I had a spark plug crap out in my Honda BF8 one time. It will run on 1 cylinder but... not very well :>)

Before you tear into anything else, replace the sparkplugs.

Edited by - on

smoken
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 21:11:44

Jim, thanks for responding, I was hoping I'd get your attention. How do I find "sloopsmitten's" thread? And, the motor would idle but would not take the throttle. Example Last sunday my wife and I went out under power, the motor pushed the boat at 5.9 to 6 knots, full throttle. Today full throttle would only generate 3.8 to 4 knots. And the motor shook so bad it would work it's self side ways in less than a minute.

Edited by - on

smoken
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 21:18:59

Frank, I'm thinking a good jet cleaning and maybe, like Dave said, changing the fuel lines and pump.
Larry, I throttled down the engine and didn't turn it off until it idled for a few minutes. I will pull the plugs and put in new ones. But before that I will check the connections of the plug wires as clam suggested. Thanks all it looks like I have a busy day tomorrow!!!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 21:58:47

Ya, that really sounds like you're running on one lung. After starting but before warming up, stop and see if either of your plugs is wet (with gasoline).

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/09/2008 22:00:50

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3439 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 22:13:36

While you are at it doing all you can, rcmd also change the fuel filter which at least on my 2006 Honda is easy enough to accomplish.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4302 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2008 : 22:26:53

Also, check your plug wires from one end to the other for any small cracks in the insulation. Sometimes a hairline crack will allow the spark to arc to the engine block or other metallic piece on the motor. Also make sure the wires aren't touching any metal for the same reasons as above or rubbed against something and worn a hole in the insulation.

Was the weather damp? If you have a breakdown in the insulation on the plug wires it will show up easier on damp/rainy days.

You could also have a coil pack going bad. That can give you intermittent operation. One time it will work, another time not. Sometimes it might work fine when cold and start misfiring when the coil pack warms up.

Most likely though it's like the others have stated above and is just a dirty carb or bad plug.

Always start with the easiest and cheapest things to fix. Many times you will fix it without spending much money.

Be careful running the motor at much more than idle with it only operating on one cylinder. Anything greater than idle and you're putting huge stresses on the connecting rods and crankshaft because of the unequal power being generated between cylinders. You're at high risk of breaking something.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2008 : 07:27:01

I think Larry hit a good point, check, no just change the fuel filter. I've had a few vehicles that ran just like you're talking about due to a water logged filter.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2008 : 08:43:58

Have you disconnected the fuel line at the engine recently? I found
on my Honda hookup one time I didn't get the adapter seated and locked correctly, the engine would suck air and not fuel and would not accelerate or run at higher rpm's. JMTCW.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2008 : 10:42:26

Terry,
Here is the link that Jim is referring to:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true& TOPIC_ID=8458& SearchTerms=jet

By the way I found myself continuously having to clean that jet which is not under the cap. I finally bought one ($5) and the problem completely disappeared. When you pull the jet a small orifice is at the end of it and I would estimate it at about .005". I use the wire out of a trash can bag tie wrap to clean it but any small diameter wire should work. I have heard of people snipping wires off a wire brush and using that also. The needle under the cap is adjustable and is the same needle on other carbs that you set about 2 turns from the bottom. More lean is better then more rich. Don't ask how I know.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2008 : 19:45:43

"Today full throttle would only generate 3.8 to 4 knots. And the motor shook so bad it would work it's self side ways in less than a minute."

Perfect description of running on one cylinder.
One of your spark plugs is dead.

Edited by - on

smoken
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2008 : 21:29:13

Today was a good day! The closes parts store doesn't stock the plugs. They made the effort and had them for me by 5 pm. I pulled the old ones, the top one was soaked, the bottom one looked fine. Popped in the new ones and all is well again. I'll pull them again this weekend and check them. As soon as the engine starts I kill the choke. When I bought the boat we were fighting major wind and rain so we kinda rushed through everything. Is my starting sequence messed up? I pump the fuel bulb until firm, pull the choke lever all the way out and hit the starter button. It starts easily and runs at a high idle. After about10 to 15 seconds I push the choke in. It seems to idle fine but at a low rpm. There is no throttle control in neutral. Does that sound right??? Thanks again for all the help!!!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2008 : 07:09:26

I have never liked low RPM on any OB. I always pushed the choke back in after starting but would then pull it back out VERY gingerly just to the point that the RPM would pick up and run it there in the slips. On the water I would push the choke back in, but maneuvering around the slips was done with a high idle.

Edited by - pastmember on 10/11/2008 07:10:07

smoken
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2008 : 07:29:23

Thanks Frank, I'll see if I can master that move. I'm sure it will help.

Also, thanks Joe for the thread. I printed it along with all the other info on this thread for future use and reference.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2008 : 10:15:47

Sometimes plugs just crap out... even in a Honda.

>"It starts easily and runs at a high idle. After about 10 to 15 seconds I push the choke in. It seems to idle fine but at a low rpm."

Sounds fine to me.

If you have a Honda BF8, there is an idle speed adjustment screw on the carburator. If you open and close the throttle with the engine cover off you'll see the throttle moving and can easily figure out where it is. Don't run your idle speed up too high or you'll be 'banging' in and out of gear when you shift. Probably just a little bit is all you need...

>"There is no throttle control in neutral. Does that sound right"

My Honda has some limited throttle control in neutral. The throttle linkage can be adjusted... but don't do this unless you are experienced at tinkering with engines. Inexperienced? Take it to a mechanic for this.

Note that there is also a recessed bronze mixture adjustment screw on the BF8... again, don't mess with it unless you are familiar with tuning small engines.

[Edit] Keep a spare set of plugs in your onboard toolbox!

Edited by - ClamBeach on 10/11/2008 10:19:27

smoken
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2008 : 19:30:00

Clam, you were right! The engine ran great all weekend with the new plugs. I guess one was bad because it hasn't hiccuped since. And I did figure out the choke thing Frank recommended and that work much better!
Thanks Again

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