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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Heaving to and a Sea Anchor

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5353 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/17/2008 : 23:36:54

Did not want to get the "heaving" crowd off on a tangent. Was wondering whether any have experiences using a sea anchor, especially in high winds and seas.

I used a medium-sized unit on the 16 foot daysailor, and although I drifted quite a ways, it worked pretty well. We had plenty of sea room, so no sweat.

I used a 30 foot line from bow to stern, tied a bowline loop in it about 1/3 the way back from the forward end, secured the sea anchor line to the loop to keep the bow partly to windward, fed out the sea anchor rode and dropped the sails and had lunch in 15-20kt winds.

The boat sliding along to leeward created a slick and minimized chop (there was still a swell however), but we were comfortable. After lunch and a while more, we pulled in the rode, hoisted sail and we were back on our way.

Others have suggested we tie it off to the bow - to be bow dead into the wind, while others suggested we tie it to the stern. I was concerned about the latter, as we might take a breaker over the transom and get pooped (and soak the little SeaGull 4 stroke).

I'd be interested in anyone's experiences with a Sea Anchor on a C25. What size is recommended? How long a rode is best?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 08:42:15

I haven't used a sea anchor, but have studied them, and am approaching the time when I might need one. I never heard of anyone using a sea anchor in such a small boat, except some commercial fishermen in the old days. I was trying to figure out why in the world you'd use a sea anchor on a 16' boat in 15-20 kt winds, but when you explained it, it makes perfect sense. I have a feeling that the 16' boat might not have hove-to reliably and securely. A small, light-weight boat might have been knocked around too much by the seas. Since you had the sea anchor, it held the boat in place and kept it steady, so you could enjoy lunch and relax.

From your description, it sounds like you used something akin to the Lin and Larry Pardey method of deploying it. The general idea is that, by holding the boat at approximately the same angle to the wind as if you were hove-to, a slick is created which helps calm the waters. The other recommended method is to deploy it from the bow, so the boat rides dead to the wind, as you noted. I just got the Pardey "Storm Tactics" book a few days ago, and have only read a few pages, so I don't know all their reasoning yet, but I do know that I read the website of one of the major manufacturers of sea anchors which strongly cautions against the Pardey method. After I finish reading the Pardey book, maybe I'll know enough to sort out that issue.

From my reading, all of the authorities advise against deploying the sea anchor from the stern, for the reasons you indicated. The boat is designed to take and shed seas best on the bow, so, when the conditions are the wildest, you want to reduce the stresses on the boat by taking the seas so that the seas are most efficiently diverted by the hull's shape.

Although you used the sea anchor to take a rest in moderate seas, that's not it's principal purpose. It's normally used in a storm at sea, when survival conditions exist, and the crew can no longer carry on sailing the boat, either because of the conditions, or because of crew exhaustion. It's usually used when the conditions are so bad that all other storm sailing techniques are no longer safe. It's the technique of last resort, and from all that I've read, it works really well.

My opinion is that a Catalina 25 should never be at sea in those conditions. It isn't designed to take breaking seas on it's pop top. Swing keels can't withstand a roll-over. If you're inclined to venture far offshore, then you should have one, but the better choice would be to check the weather carefully whenever you go offshore, and stay close enough so that you can get to shelter if the weather turns against you.

You said your daysailer made a lot of leeway when you deployed the sea anchor. It might not have been big enough for the boat. In fact, I wonder whether it was really a sea anchor, or whether it was a smaller device called a drogue.

The purpose of a sea anchor is to hold the boat in place, while making very little leeway. If the boat drifts astern too fast, and, if the rudder turns sideways to the flow of water while it's drifting backwards, it can easily snap the rudder. Sea anchors are usually made of lightweight, nylon fabric, and resemble a parachute. Even for a 16' boat, a sea anchor would probably be several feet in diameter.

A drogue is much smaller than a sea anchor, and it's deployed from astern, while the conditions still permit you to continue sailing the boat. The idea of a drogue is to reduce the boat's speed downwind, so that it doesn't race down the face of the waves, and broach or pitchpole at the bottom of the waves. Drogues are usually made of very heavy weight canvas fabric, and usually resemble an oversized bucket with big holes in it. Drogues are much smaller than parachute sea anchors. They can be different sizes for different boats, but are more likely to be 2-3 feet in diameter.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 12:49:08

Steve-
Nice analysis. Indeed, based on your description, it was a drogue.
I've used it several times for lunch, and to drift downwind slowly when trolling for lake trout.

But it points out an important safety issue: whether we plan to or not, we could get caught out in very bad conditions. Would not the right sized drogue or sea anchor be good insurance, provided one learned to use it in moderate conditions?

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John Russell
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Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 13:15:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ..... Would not the right sized drogue or sea anchor be good insurance, provided one learned to use it in moderate conditions?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Would it tempt the otherwise "Cautious Captain" to push the safety envelope just a bit too much?

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JohnP
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Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 13:56:19

I have looked into worst case scenarios for the Chesapeake Bay and found info on man overboard (previous thread), and on sea anchors and serial drogues. There are some, but no many, sea anchor stories from skippers of boats 35' or less in the [url="http://www.dddb.com/news.html"]Drag Device Database[/url].

I have seen the websites for the [url="http://jordanseriesdrogue.com/"]series drogue[/url], but there are few firsthand accounts of their use. Some of these seem like ads for the products. Here is a reasonable comparison of [url="http://holoholo.org/caldwell/bj_96/oceannav.html"]sea anchors and drogues[/url].

I have learned enough to avoid sailing in my boat in a storm with breaking waves.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 14:01:22

Bruce: If you found a yellow, conical, vinyl-coated canvas thing on Passage, that was my drogue (from another boat)--used maybe once or twice experimentally. I'm sure it wouldn't hold Passage's bow to the wind, but it might help control her speed and direction downwind--rarely big issue in Long Island Sound chop.

On a small, unballasted centerboard daysailer (which I had), I don't believe heaving to is a useful strategy when threatened by heavy wind. The sails should come down. As Steve says, on a C-25, some sail area can be left up, whether hove to or beating a retreat--it will steady the boat better than a bare pole. Heaving to takes no equipment or preparation, and can be "un-done" in an instant. A sea anchor takes rigging and deployment in nasty conditions, and even more effort to retrieve before you can make way.

Either way, the "stability index" and construction of a C-25 are marginal for going off-shore. The kind of big seas that would cause you to go to this type of "Plan C" (instead of finding cover) can be enough to knock down a C-25, whether sails are up or down. I'd rather be making way toward shelter than crawling around trying to deploy a sea anchor.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 15:12:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Steve-
whether we plan to or not, we could get caught out in very bad conditions. Would not the right sized drogue or sea anchor be good insurance, provided one learned to use it in moderate conditions?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If you only sail on a small, inland lake, there's no circumstance when you might need a sea anchor or drogue. The waves will never get that big. If you sail offshore, it would certainly be good to carry a sea anchor or a drogue or both, even if you never expect to use them, but, as John said, having them might cause you to exercise less restraint than you should. To my way of thinking, you should never find yourself so far offshore that you might get caught out in storm conditions. IMHO, a C25 isn't safe in those conditions, either with or without a sea anchor. I think a C25 could be modified so that it would be safer in a storm, but none of us have made those modifications, so, what we could do won't help us. With a factory stock C25, a sea anchor might not save your life. It might just prolong the inevitable.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 15:47:48

I don't think a sea anchor is needed on a C25. Better have storm sails, 25 inch shaft outboard, and a good marine VHF weather radio. If you did have one, the cleats on the C25 are woefully undersized for bearing the type of load a sea anchor can put on a boat in breaking seas. I think it would be a recipe for disaster, as the entire bow end of the deck could get torn out or the rudder snapped off.

Your options if caught out in a blow/breaking seas

(1) heave to
(2) run off
(3) lay ahull (no sails up, drift down wind).

Option 3 is very dangerous in breaking seas, better to run off. If you are running too fast, tow warps (ropes). I'd consider towing my anchor stabilizer cones as drouges. If I didn't have that I'd consider dragging my anchor plus full rode from the stern.

Your boat can take a lot of rolling, pitching, waves, and worse. Stick with it, keep it moving, keep away from dangers.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 18:48:24

Keep in mind that Jim, Steve and I are talking about sea conditions I suspect very few people here have seen. A major storm (I'm not talking hurricane) can build breaking waves that are much higher than the boat is long, and that will throw a 25' sailboat around like a toy. Surfing down the face of such a wave, the boat can reach speeds that make it uncontrollable, overwhelming the rudder and yawing the boat sideways at the bottom, leading to a broach. As the wave overtakes the foundering boat, it can easily turn it the rest of the way over, at which point the C-25 pop-top, companionway, and sail locker quickly allow the boat to fill with water and disappear.

That's what a C-25 or 250 is not built for. That's what a drogue is intended for. But it's intended for a boat that otherwise can survive those conditions, and it's not reasonable to expect that a 25-foot Catalina can.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 22:04:41

Dave -
I did see the small drogue on board, but I never did anything with it. I may keep it for the day I plan on running and need some brakes.

We should never expect to be in conditions like you describe with our boats, as weather forecasting is typically advanced enough to predict conditions of the magnitude you describe.

Nevertheless, we bay, sound and big lake sailors find ourselves in surprisingly bad conditions at times, especially when breezes build 5-10 kts greater than expected for long periods over a long fetch around shoaling, or when unexpected squalls develop.

The possibility of confused seas are another hazard one can miss in a forecast.

I plan on avoiding the open ocean completely, but large bays can be quite treacherous at times, and the shallow depths tend to promote breaking waves.

Bottom line, the wary sailor avoids even the possibility of foul weather, but our crystal balls are still not 100% foolproof.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 03/18/2008 : 22:41:15

Bruce, you're exactly right about crystal balls... I've been in stuff about as bad as L.I.S. can throw at you--generally running for cover, turning back, or delaying my return to home port. But I haven't been in anything there for which a drogue would have helped much. That's an ocean thing--we have some of that not far from me here. Passage will take care of you on L.I.S. as long as you're paying attention.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/19/2008 : 06:51:56

When you sail for long distances in the open ocean, you have to be prepared to withstand any conditions of wind and sea that the weather gods can throw at you, because once you're out there, there's no place to hide or to take shelter. Nautical architects design blue water boats according to the "corked bottle theory." The general idea is that, if you throw a well-corked bottle in the ocean, it will remain floating after even the worst of storms, so long as it remains intact and corked. Blue water boats are built to remain intact and corked in any conditions, as long as they don't hit anything hard, like land, or a ship. That's why sailors who are caught in a major storm head for the open sea. They trust that the boat will be strong enough to survive the storm. But, it's very expensive to build a boat to that standard, and, if you just want to sail around lakes and bays and coastal waters, it isn't necessary that it be that strong. A Catalina 25 isn't designed and built for open water sailing. It can withstand big seas up to a point, and, if you get caught out, you might be able to nurse it through the storm, but it can't withstand a roll over, or a pitchpole, or a similar event. Ideally, you should be able to rely on a bluewater boat to take care of itself, and survive a major storm unattended, in case you are injured or exhausted. With a boat that isn't built to those standards, you have to actively participate in handling the boat, and protecting it from damage. You won't be able to rest in a 2-3 day storm. If you want to make long passages, you can find affordable older, blue water boats that are better suited to the job than a C25.

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