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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Handrails - Finally Finished!!!!!!!!!!!!

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 08:06:48

Got the handrails off on Saturday which was the warmest day of the weekend. Like Bruce said, they came off pretty easily. Well that is after I figured out that the loops that don't have a bolt have hold down screws from inside the cabin. I sprayed each bolt with some WD 40 and let them sit for a while. A tip for those who might be doing this in the future. I didn't want to pull to hard on the rails because I really didn't know how strong or how stuck they would be. I took my claw hammer with the rubber handle and slipped the handle under the rail. Then all I did was to twist the handle using the claw end and the rails came loose wihout incident.

Then using black duct tape, I covered all of the holes left by the removal. From the looks of the decking and the rails, this is the first time they have been removed for refinishing and rebedding. Both rails did straighten a little, but still have a curve in them. I did mark the underside of them to indicate the starboard and port rails. After covering the holes with the tape, I covered the entire cabin top with a tarp.. but I do that anyway.

Sorry I don't have pictures yet, but I will. I forgot my camera, but will take some beginning with one rail sanded and the other in the state I took from the boat. Then I will show the progress and the install.

Can't wait till I have them refinished and installed. I am sure it will greatly improve the looks of the cabin top.

Oh...almost forgot. I also removed the rudder to refinish it below the waterline. The P.O. had done this previously (his process is in the tech tips section.), but it needs to be redone.

Edited by - cat1951 on 02/11/2008 08:34:25

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 08:36:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Four coats of Deks Olje and two coats of Cetol, and they ought to last for years.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Be aware, Cetol should only be used over bare wood.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 09:47:09

Good work Mike... If it freezes down there (?) and the boat is out of the water, the rudder should come off and be stored inside every year to prevent either internal freezing or expansion from the sun.

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 12:08:24

Dave, not sure if we need to remove the rudder. It may get below freezing here periodically throughout the winter, but not for more than a few days at a time. The P.O. had done the needed repairs to the rudder from the cracking edges (see tech tips), but most of the red ablative paint had come off. It just needs minor sanding and painting to bring it back to great shape.

I am also redoing the cabin table to shorten and lower it. I want the table to swing up out of the way rather than to have to lug it around. Also foundthis in tech tips too. In addition a cabin air mattress for sleeping and two burner stove for the galley are also in the works. I will probably put out a thread with pictures of the changes, but will keep the handrail refinishing on this one.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 14:41:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cat1951
 ...not sure if we need to remove the rudder. It may get below freezing here periodically throughout the winter, but not for more than a few days at a time. The P.O. had done the needed repairs to the rudder from the cracking edges...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...which probably came from freezing, which doesn't take a few days to happen (in the air). Storing it will help to prevent recurrence.

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2008 : 14:43:57

Sounds like a good idea. Once I get it refinished, I will make it a habit to bring it in for the Winter.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2008 : 10:26:12

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I wish my rails had those bolts. It would apprear to make the removal and installation so much easier. Probably why the factory went that route in subsequent years.

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2008 : 10:59:35

Yep, I am sure they will be a help when re-installing the rails. Only problem is if the bolt turns in the wood. On one of the rails, the front bolt is freely turning. I plan to drill a very small hole down the side of the bolt. Then take some super glue and using a hobby eye dropper, fill the gap by injecting it into it. Once it dries it should be solidly in place.

Edited by - cat1951 on 03/03/2008 11:00:01

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2008 : 11:08:57

Epoxy might work better that superglue to prevent the bolt head from spinning.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2008 : 12:10:32

Just take out the plugs and hold the heads, new plugs are cheap.

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2008 : 12:27:32

I guess I should get some plugs just to have some around anyway. And since it is just one bolt, it shouldn't take too long to replace.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2008 : 16:55:36

Don't worry about those "few dark spots" Like us folks who are gettin' on up there, those spots are a mark of wisdom (of the sea?).

Edited by - dmpilc on 03/03/2008 16:56:09

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5353 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2008 : 22:33:56

I finished almost all the external wood trim in Cetol and it's all ready to replace. I want to thank everyone on your good advice. What's the best bedding compound to keep the rain-water out?

I have been unable to remove the "eyebrows" on the outside of the bulkheads.

They don't seem to have any purpose whatsoever. Has anybody simply removed them?

How do you clean the fibreglas behind this area?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2008 : 00:34:37

Polysulfide! It is durable and remains flexible for years. It is removable, but it has good adhesion. You aren't looking for glue in this application. You want want a material that will adhere to both the wood and gelcoat and remain flexible to accommodate differing rates of expansion and contraction. It takes days to cure, but it is worth it for the long term. Check the West Marine/BoatUS site for a helpful discussion of caulks/sealants/adhesives.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2008 : 08:00:11

I use Silicone II

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2008 : 08:23:45

"Polysulfides You can—and should—use polysulfide to bed almost everything. A synthetic rubber with excellent adhesive characteristics, polysulfide is the most versatile of marine sealants. As a bedding compound it allows for the movements associated with stress and temperature change, yet maintains the integrity of the seal by gripping tenaciously to both surfaces. It even adheres to oily teak and is unaffected by harsh teak cleaners, making it the choice for bedding teak rails and trim. It is also an excellent caulking compound since it can be sanded after it cures and it takes paint well." - Don Casey

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5353 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2008 : 22:44:22

Dave, Don and Frank -
Thanks for the good advice. I will check them out in my local west marine store.

I've just started reading Casey's book Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual. I finished the electrical book first and found it was fully covered in the former.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2008 : 20:04:27

I am ready to fit my new ones. I tried to get a photo of the curve of the old ones, it does not show up well. It is one inch at its high point. My outside teak was badly molded when I got my boat. A high power wash and sanding got another two years out of them but by the end of last summer the mold was re-emerging from deep in the grain.

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2008 : 07:51:40

They look great. Mine are completely sanded and ready to add the finish. However, other projects have been keeping them on the back burner for a little while. I have just completed refinishing my rudder above and below the waterline. Will also add the upgraded (according to Catalina Direct) tiller connecting bracket and the new ash and mahogany tiller. I have also shortened the dining table and built a shelf bracket to hold it to the bulkhead. Then all I have to do to stow it, is to swing it up and lock it in place. The other project that is almost finished is adding the small bottle propane stove to the galley. I have another thread running on that, but need to add pictures to it when installed.

And if that isn't enough, my wife and I leave the flatlands of Oklahoma tomorrow for Napa Valley. We are celebrating our 30th anniversary a little late since it was last September. We have a hot air balloon flight planned, a couple of days in San Francisco, a day up the coast on the Pacific Coast Highway and then back to Napa to visit several vineyards.

Oh, almost forgot the queen sized bed in the cabin. I think I have worked out my design and will get that done too. All projects will be added with pictures when done.

However, when we get back, it's time for sailing.... Didn't do enough last year and I am going to make up for it.

Edited by - cat1951 on 03/21/2008 07:55:18

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/21/2008 : 12:05:22

The two part cleaners/lighteners are fairly potent alkalies and and acids like bleach and oxalic acid and are very effective for off the boat bleaching, but will require light sanding. The one parts are much milder and will lighten grayed wood, but have little effect on seriously discolored wood.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2008 : 07:53:52

Well, I messed my rails up pretty bad and will probably buy another set next spring. BUT, I now know how to do this. Of course the issue is to tap the rails to the existing holes in the boat, did that, but I drilled the full distance of the tap; error! The problem is how narrow the rails are. I should have simply marked the tap locations with the drill and finished the holes on my drill press so the holes would run true through the middle of the rail. Mine wandered off line which made it impossible to do the countersink on the top for the bolt heads.

sigh

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2008 : 08:54:58

I had a problem on the front bolts that go through each rail. They were both loose, so tightening them when back on the boat would not work very well. So I turned the rail over and began to tap on the bolt to knock out the plug on the top. OOPS...didn't do so well it split the rail on either side of the plug. Luckily I was able to get glue in the splits and then drill out the plug later. I will not put the plugs back in until the handrails are in place the cabin top. That way I know they will be tight.

Re-added pictures from first post:

Edited by - cat1951 on 04/07/2008 08:59:15

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2008 : 12:10:44

Great work, Mike! A trick you might try for those pesky bolts is to dremmel a little slot in the bolt end so you can hold it with a skinny screwdriver (from below) as you turn the nut. I was able to tighten one of mine adequately by pulling down on the nut as I turned it, thus pulling down on the bolt head inside the rail enough to get it to bind on the teak. A dab of WD-40 also helped so that the nut turned as easily as possible. I think I might have used pliers with a rag to grip the bolt end, too--don't remember for sure.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/07/2008 12:12:56

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2008 : 13:12:40

Thanks Dave, I hadn't considered using the dremel tool to cut a slot. I like the idea and maybe will do it that way. Although fitting the plug, sanding and refinishing it when the handrail is back on the cabin top won't present much of a problem since it is only the front bolt. I can have the Admiral hold a screwdriver in the top of the bolt top..since it is a flathead screw type, and I can tighten from below. Then put the plug in and apply the cetol. Also, on the bolts and screws, I soaked them in engine cleaner and then, using a rag, I wiped them all clean. Adding the WD40 will surely make the nuts feed on very easily.

BTW..The second rail is well along and I need only 2 more coats of the Cetol to be done.

Edited by - cat1951 on 04/07/2008 13:14:44

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5353 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2008 : 23:01:57

I just put the handrails and cabin top slider boards back on the boat last Saturday, and the Cetol made them look great. I used polysulfide bedding as Dave Bristle suggested, and while it was a little messy if you're not careful, Don Casey advises that it's the only material to use to get a solid & flexible seal.

I plan to wait about 2 weeks to cut off the excess material that squeezed out from underneath. Should I clean the area afterward with acetone, or will that attack the polysulfide under the rails?

I also reseated the cabin top wood trim and handle. Again, polysulfide around the screw holes and along the top edge to keep the rain out.

My next steps are to put the companionway trim and threshhold section back together. The drop boards are done. I had to recreate the threshhold piece out of teak using the old one and a photo from Catalina Direct as a guide. I'm a little concerned about the strength of this piece, as it is quite thin, especially right between the tread and the overhang.

My son, who's the woodworker in the family, advised me to add several SS bolts through this section to strengthen it up, and I plan to take his advice. I just need to miss the screws that hold the threshhold in place.

I got the eyebrows (from the bulkheads) off after popping the bungs, but I really messed them up doing so. I had to trace out the old ones on some new Teak, and create them anew. They're pretty much identical to the originals (it took a lot of sanding), but it was worth it.

Now, I have to try my hand at bung replacements! It's going to take some epoxy, a sharp chisel and more sandpaper.

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