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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Handrails - Finally Finished!!!!!!!!!!!!

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cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/06/2008 : 13:27:02

I have been reading a lot about removing handrails in the archives and have a question. Most of them recommend two people to remove and re-install them. Does anyone have experience in just the removal by 1 person? I am going to the boat this weekend, but will be alone. I would like to remove the handrails to take home and refinish. Just wondering if I can do it by myself. BTW: I have a 1985 C25.....

March 3rd - I thought it would be a good idea to update this thread since pictures had been requested. I have added the first of several that will be posted. The first one is a picture of both rails removed... by 1 person (me). The top rail is before sanding and the one closest in the picture has been sanded. Although I forgot to take another picture, both are now ready for the cetol. I will add the before and after pics as soon as the weather cooperates. We are headed for snow late tonight and into tomorrow.
Will sailing season EVER get here!

April 6....new pictures..nearly done.

Not that I haven't been working on these, but am in the middle of several projects ..this being just one of them. All others are well enough along to begin the last part of refinishing. By next weekend, I hope to have all projects comleted, and the handrails back in place.. I will post a thread with all of them. then.

Here are the rails...one finished with two coats of Cetol Light, and the other sanded and ready. Vacation, also played a part in the delay, but I am full steam ahead now.

Another view..

Mike
Grand Lake, OK
N.O. Catalina 25 #4849
In my opinion 75% of the earth is water for a reason. That's why I sail.

Edited by - cat1951 on 05/18/2008 18:07:10

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 14:09:27

You can easily remove them by yourself. Putting them back on really does take two because of the caulking. I would suggest you tie or tape each rail to the boat so that when you remove the last screw from inside the boat the rail does not "jump" overboard.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 14:17:46

With the pop-top up, you can handle the job alone easily. My rails were mounted with a combination of screws and bolts. The bolt heads were under bungs in the rail, and nuts held them inside. Remove the screws first, then the nuts, and then pull the rails up from the outside. To replace, put caulk around the bolts and on the screw holes, bend the rails enough to get the bolts into the holes, but don't push them all the way down, run the screws up into their holes, tighten everything enough to squeeze a little caulk out, let it set up for a couple of days, and then tighten a little more.

Tip: A little WD40 on the nuts before you remove them helps keep the bolts from turning as you turn the nuts. So does pulling down as you turn the nuts (with pliers or a vice-grip).

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 14:27:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cat1951
 Does anyone have experience in just the removal by 1 person?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, but it's not a good one.

Since these rails are straight when made and then curved upon being installed, they are under a bit of tension. On my 1980 boat, these rails are secured via wood screws underneath in the cabin. Anyway, as I was backing out a screw and had about a quarter inch or so to go, the tension on the rail overcame the screws ability to hold it curved and the end of the screw tore sideways trough the teak.

From then on, I used a helper to keep the teak rail from springing straight as I removed the screws. I also used a helper to help curve the hand rail as each screw was put in.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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1561 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 14:31:05

I'm with Randy, I tried to put mine back on by myself and made a real mess of it as the culk smeared every whichway. Cheers.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 14:44:18

It was a non event for me, I use Silicone II, clear. It might be tougher installing replacements that have not sat in place for over 20 years, that might benefit from a little help. Every other attachment point is through bolted vs screwed from below. The screws are gotten to from below while the through bolts go in from the top. I never bothered to replug those, just filled the void in the teak with Silicon II too. I plan to get new ones this year so it may be more exciting this time.
edit: The coach roof on an 89 is different than the other models so you may very well have an issue bending the rails that I did not run into.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 02/06/2008 15:19:08

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 15:00:30

As far as installing, I do plan to have a helper. It is only the removing part that I am going to do alone. To keep the rail from springing and falling overboard, I had planned to tie a line around the front rail support, then to the back support. Then put in a block and tighten the line. Theoretically this should keep the tension on the handrail in order to keep it bent. Then, as Nautiduck suggests, I will tie it to the boat just in case it tries to go overboard.

I would think that 23 yearold teak would tend to hold the bent shape since it has been bolted in place for that long. However, better to be prepared than just overlook the possibility.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 15:08:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cat1951
 I would think that 23 year old teak would tend to hold the bent shape since it has been bolted in place for that long.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

One would think it would remain curved but alas it is almost as straight as the day it was made.

Edited by - dlucier on 02/06/2008 15:21:44

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 18:27:43

I sanded/refinished my handrails without removing them. They look good.

Should I remove them? I haven't had any leaks nor have I noticed any reason for removal.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 22:38:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by stampeder
 I sanded/refinished my handrails without removing them. They look good. Should I remove them?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Hell no! Only if you want to.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5353 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 23:17:42

I plan on removing my handrails this weekend. And will do the job solo.

Frank - thanks for the photos, as I wasn't sure about the bolts on the ends. The WD-40 is a great tip.

I see the wooden strips as well. How the heck do you take those off?

I've been using the following retreatment for the teak:

Strip and sand off the old coatings.
Apply 4-6 coats of Deks Olje Matte #1. Wait a week.
Apply 2-3 coats of Sikkens Cetol.

I did my companion-way slats last summer, and they still look like new - no grey.

I'm looking forward to having the rest of the bright work to look as good in a few weeks time.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 23:26:21

If the rails are bent, start on each end and remove the nuts or screws from end to end then work towards the center. Just a thought. This should release some of the strain on the wood being bent under tension.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2008 : 23:33:00

Bruce, I didn't need to get to the bolt heads under the bungs in the rails--I just left them intact. One bolt wanted to turn, but I was able to finesse it.

Good luck--Passage is in good hands!

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 08:17:46

Well at least I have only the handrails. On the 1985 that we have there are no long strips to have to remove. We refinished all other teak the year before last and I just have to sand lightly and go over it again in a few places. Since we are still in what I call shoulder season (some days cold, some warm enough to sail, some rainy, some snowy) I want to bring them home and work on them there. I will do as Capri25 indicates... start from the ends and work toward the center. In theory this should help to remove the tension as I go from attachment point to the next.

I will also be removing the table in the cabin, shortening it by about a foot, and then mounting it on hinges on the bulkhead. Got this idea from the tech tips... and then adding a two burner stove in the galley by making a new wooden support base using the old cutting board for a template. Then the queen sized bed in the cabin. If all goes well, I will be more than ready for the season.

I just love Winter, I have more projects than I have time for.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 09:05:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cat1951
 ...I will do as Capri25 indicates... start from the ends and work toward the center. In theory this should help to remove the tension as I go from attachment point to the next...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You shouldn't need to worry about that--the '85 has the bolts you see in Frank's picture--they hold the rails in place, with the bend, after all screws and nuts are removed. Then just slide the rails up. To replace, put two bolts in, bend a little, and get the others in, then add the screws. No big deal.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 09:52:31

Thanks Dave... I will let you know how it goes.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 09:57:17

Mike,
I was happy to be able to just refinish my gray and pitted handrails in place, like Stampeder. The bottom edges could not be done perfectly, but it was ok.

Can you show us pictures of before and after? It's so satisfying to see improvements.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 11:50:28

When adding cabin winches to my 82 I wished the 7 loop handrails were 6 loop handrails to allow more room. Defender has a Clearance sale on two loop handrails, $5 each. If you think about it these would look great and work great, skip the first bolt at the winch location, start with the second bolt. set a two loop in place, skip a bolt set the next two looper in place and repeat on the other side. $20 and you have improved the boat too.
http://www.defender.com/category2.jsp?path=-1|619045|619409& id=638633
you may need to paste that.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 02/07/2008 11:52:53

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 12:31:12

7 loop handrails are $30 cheaper at Defender than at Catalina Direct.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 13:00:03

Well, I already have cabin top winches, and want to rebed the handrails anyway. I do not know if it has ever been done on our boat, but am considering this normal maintenance. I do want to get out of the weather to refinish so I will try taking them off. I guess the main reason for removing them is so I can rebed them using new sealant. I did all the other teak while still on the boat. If the handrails didn't have so many curves, I would probably not remove them. Since they do, I want to be able to turn them to make the sanding easier.

Oh..and JohnP, I will take pictures of before and after. I haven't ever posted pics on this site, so I will need to learn how.

Edited by - cat1951 on 02/07/2008 13:03:21

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 13:17:33

For posting pictures, on page 2 of the general section in the thread titled "British Catalina 25 and 22 and tides," Delliottg gave me great instructions, and it was easy. Here's what he wrote:

David,
Here's how to easily post pictures in the forum:
Change your Format Mode from Basic to Prompt (upper left of the editing window underneath screensize).
Go to the page where the photo you want is shown (in your case Shutterfly, which is the same place I use), and right click on the photo. Select "Copy image location".
Come back to your forum post, and click on the "Insert Image" icon (4th from the right, sort of looks like a black arrow pointing at an upsidedown envelope), right click on the blue "http://" and paste your image URL into the line. Click OK.
You'll see a line similar to this:
(img)http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8df39b3127cceb45713f03cd800000026102AcsmzVy5Ysi([/img)
except the parenthesis will be square brackets

Edited by - dmpilc on 02/07/2008 13:21:41

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 13:44:07

Thanks David, I need to open a shutterfly account so that I have a referral page for the pics. Just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2008 : 21:35:12

Shucks, if you need a 6-loop handrail, just cut off one loop from the 7 looper! I did this when I installed a cabin-top winch and just rounded the cut part with a sander.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 07:12:55

This is a very helpful thread. I was wondering why one of the bolts inside at the ends of the handrail was bigger, and hadn't thought of the problem of bending the rail. I need to remove and rebed mine, too. At least one of those bolts in a leak spot. For now, the new cover helps mitigate that.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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USA
5353 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 21:57:37

I pulled mine out today, thanks Dave, it was a no-brainer getting them out. The wood has been bent for so long, they didn't spring back to straight at all.

And I really had to remove them, as I don't think I would have been able to (or really it would have been a struggle to) sand them in place, with all the curves and tight spots.

Once I got them back in my warm garage, they sanded up with my hand sander pretty well, although there are still a few dark spots. [Anybody know whether these "wood lighteners" are any good?]

Four coats of Deks Olje and two coats of Cetol, and they ought to last for years.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2008 : 22:15:52

A topcoat of Cetol each year--easy to do in-place with a little foam brush--will help keep them spiffy. Rub lightly with a Scotch pad first.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/09/2008 22:16:30

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