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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Trailering and the elusive "30 Minute Launch"

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albert
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USA
262 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/28/2007 : 16:16:20

My admiral and two young ones (1 and 5 yrs) require that I launch within 30 minutes of arriving at a marina. Any longer than a 30 minute setup, and they will quickly lose interest in ever sailing again. Tough goal, but reality can be harsh

In recognition of reality: Currently my 1984 C25 SK is in a marina in the Florida keys. Family has lost interest in cruising the same waters with the same boat. Boat hasn't been used in 2 years. I'm paying marina fees and it has officially become just another "hole in the water".

Plan A: was to purchase a larger vessel (footitis acutus), but South Florida insurance rates from BoatUS are insane (31' Allmand, stated value $15,000, annual insurance = $2,800!!!!

). I can go with a liability only policy to satisfy my marina for $280 per year, but I'm not sure I want to take the risk on a larger more expensive boat.

So.....

Plan B: is to trailer my C25. Admiral and two small children (1yr and 5yr) dictate that I launch and be ready to sail within 30 minutes of arrival at marina. Is this feasible? Oh, and BTW, I single hand...no help from admiral. She keeps the kids out of trouble, I have to raise mast and launch. (Note: I don't have a trailer either).

I think it would be feasible for plan B if I set up the mast with some sort of easy raising system. I could use the trailer's winch to raise the mast, or even install an electric windlass to facilitate raising. Winching would speed up mast raising AND hold the mast in place while I go and attach the standing rigging. My standing rigging would need to be modified to pivot on the same plane as the tabernacle axis. Any suggestions on how to do this? There's a tech tip somewhere that shows how to modify the rigging. Problem is that this is only one of the modifications needed for quick rigging and it doesn't include a winch.

So, in theory, we pull up near the ramp. Check for overhead powerlines or other nasty obstructions. Untie the mast, attach lines for raising, lift mast, attach a few quick release stays.

Assuming the above works as planned. I don't think I'll be off in 30 minutes if I still need to attach boom, rigid vang, bend on main, set up roller furler, etc.

Any suggestions, recommendations?

BTW, I haven't installed the roller furler yet, but would like it to assist in single handing. I'm open to installing a flex furler or a rigid traditional furler, but I don't know how I would store the furlers while transporting, etc.

Ideally, I'd like a method that would allow me to leave boom attached with main bent on. Also a furled head sail would be good. This would get me in the water within the necessary time frame.

I'll modify the boat and trailer in any way necessary to achieve the "30 minute launch".

Thanks.

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus 1984 C25 #4679

Edited by - albert on 12/28/2007 22:22:52

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 16:57:14

Albert,
For what it's worth, about the best launch we've ever had with our C250 was about 1:45. That's with a dedicated trailer that's designed to assist in the launch process including the mast raising bits, dedicated baby stays to keep the mast from falling to the side, and both of us working on different tasks. I believe that with practice we could shave another hour off of this, maybe 45 minutes. I doubt seriously that it could be done in half an hour. That said, when I bought my first boat (a catamaran with only a forestay to connect), it took me well over an hour the first time I launched it, but I soon got that down to about 25 minutes with lots of practice (sailing nearly every day for several weeks). Bear in mind this isn't for the same model of boat as yours, and I'm sure the C25 guys will weigh in here soon. I think a reasonable estimate (with lots of practice) would be about 90 minutes to rig & launch by yourself.

Edited by - delliottg on 12/28/2007 17:36:40

JimB517
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 17:13:35

I can get my boat out of the slip and underway (with a wife and 2 kids in tow) in 30 minutes.

By myself I can do it in 10.

No way you'll ever rig and launch a C25 in that time unless it is dry stored with the mast up, sails bent, and the motor on.

Edited by - on

1981capri
Navigator

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USA
175 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 17:29:27

I agree with David. I had a 16 foot dinghy with a 20 foot mast I could lift and put in place myself and just two shrouds and a forstay. My wife and I had the drill down pretty good and working together finally got to where we could have the boat rigged in in the water in about 30 minutes. With a C25...? When you figure just getting the tie downs off and stowed and getting things together to start rigging you are at 30 minutes.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 17:36:34

Option C: Get a smaller boat like a Daysailer that you can rig in the time allowed. Get through this period with the youngsters. As they have more fun sailing move up to a bigger boat.

Option D: Get a small motorboat. I know, I know! But it is better to have a motorboat than no boat at all.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 12/28/2007 17:42:08

Steve Blackburn
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Canada
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Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 18:00:59

Albert,

Before buying the boat I remember viewing a MacGregor video boasting a 10 minute rigging & launch (from trailer to attached at the docks). It's a good idea, but a lie. Here is the reality:

I have a C250 water ballast with roller furler and the mast raising system on the trailer and motor fixed on the boat. FYI I'm 40, have 2 kids (9 & 13), an admiral. I'm good with my hands and said to be a fast at rigging (however I purposely slow myself down a little to make sure everything is done right the first time and that everything is safe). In the beginning of the 2007 season we towed, rigged, launched every week-end. In the beginning it would take me about 1:45 (no one helping me) from arrival to the boat in the water attached at the docks, then another 20 minutes to get everyone rounded up and cast away. Same time in reverse going from water to trailer. The Admiral slowly picked up on the routine which at some point dropped my time from 1:45 to about 1 hour (our fastest time).

You must also factor in trailering time. If we would leave at 9:00 we would get to the launch at about 10:00. Once we launched and ready it was noon. Eat, then Sail for about 6 hours it brought us up to 18:00. Add another 2 hours for derigging and it is now 20:00. Trailer back home it's now 21:00 and we are just exhausted, and I have to go to work the next day!

We fixed our problem by parking the boat all rigged up at the marina. If there is no one in the queue for the launch it would take me no more than 7-10 minutes from trailer to being attached at the dock. Add the 20 minutes prep time and you got your 30 minutes. Now mind you that is with a boat and trailer specifically setup for quick trailer launching. If your C25 doesn't have a swing keel, add another 20 minutes to the equation (at least).

If you read this forum much you will notice that most people here would rather go for a permanent slip. I believe that even Paul (BritInUSA) who is the biggest advocate for trailering his C250WB would admit this, but I'll let him answer for himself. Paul's workaround for this problem is to do mini cruises of 3-5 days at a time. Another bonus of a slip is that I won't have to deal with the aggressiveness sometimes seen at boat launches (people get real nervous at a launch). I myself put in for a slip this summer.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 12/28/2007 18:08:32

britinusa
Web Editor

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Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 18:49:28

An off the wall solution. Don't prep the boat ashore!

Before leaving the house, make triply certain that you have everything you need 'on the boat' on the trailer.

Drag it down to the water and launch it. Raise the stick on the water.

If we did that here, we could probably be in the water within 10mins of arriving at the marina, longer if there are boats waiting to launch.

You could slip lines from the shrouds to the deck plates to make it easy to reconnect them. An A frame would let you pull the mast up on the water.

Paul

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 19:38:27

My buddy and I can splash in about 40 minutes... well, at least as of a few years ago when we were a bit more 'spry'. Note that 'launch' does not include hanking on the sails or fine-tuning the rig. It's boat in water, mast up, outboard running ready to head to a slip in the marina. Ready to sail... add another 30+ minutes to complete rigging tasks. So 'ready to sail' time is still well over an hour.

A C25 splash time in a 40-50 minute 'ballpark' requires two experienced people, both of them being 'mechanically competent' and working as a team, with little wasted motion in between steps. One person handles the topside tasks, one person handles the 'ground' tasks and both people end up on the same task only when both are needed (primarily mast raising).

I think if a person had everything set up perfectly... a half hour launch for two people is possible... an hour for a solo effort would be about the best I would expect. That would be for a strong, agile young man (or woman) who has enough strength to simply lift the mast up by himself... and you'd really have to hustle.

Mid-20's trailer sailers will only become 'easy' when...

Carbon fiber telescoping mast... not necessary to un-step.
Quick detach/tension stays all around.
Outboard is mounted and ready... or you have a saildrive.
Mainsail roller-furled in carbon-fiber boom. Attach boom, lead slugs to track and raise.

Then you'd stand a chance.

Edited by - on

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 22:11:32

I'm currently in a slip in the Fl. Keys. Will keep the slip, but would like some additional sailing options.

Also could use the trailer as a hurricane evacuation plan. Storm approaches, put boat on trailer, haul inland. Reduce chance that boat would be damaged during a storm.

Edited by - on

albert
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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2007 : 22:19:39

Not Yet!'s Huntington Rig.

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/nymastup.asp

Has anyone any experience with this. It looks like a possible solution. Boom and Mainsail are attached.

Edited by - on

tmhansen
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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2007 : 01:35:30

We dry sail our boat and I would say by myself the best I would expect would be about two hours from pulling up at the ramp to ready to cast off. Coming back is about the same, maybe a little less. There is just so much to do even once the mast is up you have to run all the lines for the jib and main, put the lifesling on the rail, tie on the jacklines (kids always had to be tied in when on deck when they were little - saved my 3 year old nephew from a free swim in the Pacific this summer - he was screaming his head off but he was attached to the boat).

Since it takes us so long to set up we block out multi day trips like Paul. The good side of this is we have sailed in a wide variety of locations in the past few years. The downside is we can't just go down and go for a sail on a day off. (Just bought a 16' Daysailor to get my class racing fix and solve this problem) On our typical trip we will hit the road on Friday afternoon and get to our destination in the late afternoon or even in the evening. It only takes us a few minutes to prep the boat to splash so we launch within 10 minutes of arrival. Usually we just motor over to a slip that we get for the weekend or here in Morro Bay we may motor over to a dock next to a restaraunt and tie up and have dinner before going out and anchoring for the night. In the morning while the kids are doing their morning things below I am up on deck getting the boat rigged at my leasure. By the time the wind is up I am ready to go. For our Catalina trip I set up the boat in the dark the night before while the kids were in bed and we left at 6am while they were still in their bunks.

We use a roller furler (CDI) on which I leave the furled sail when trailering. I copied ideas from Arlyn on this and made supports for it. I need to get photos of them on my web site to share. They are still in development but they are getting better.

My website does have photos of how I step the mast on the water using an A frame.

The other thing we do is rent a mooring locally for a week or two at a time and then act like Jim and sail every night after work - usually taking out a new group of friends each night. With the kids activities we just go through long streches where the boat is not used so it makes more sense for us to keep it at home where it cost me nothing and then we plan trips. The Admiral just announced that this summer she wants to put the kids into CIMI camp at Catalina and then while they are having fun we go on a circumnavigation of island alone. Am I a lucky guy or what!?

Hang in there - the kids change very fast. Since I got my son sailing in the optimist class he has taken much more interest in sailing the big boat. The downside of him sailing in the optimist class is many of my summer weekends are spent being an Opti dad on shore or in a chase boat. But I try and enjoy each new adventure the kids bring while they are with us because too soon I know I will have all the sailing time I want.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 12/29/2007 : 10:49:21

Albert, seems to me like its the family or the boat. Not an easy choice to make for sure, and not one that I'd care to make.

Have you considered an occasional outing in a rented boat, one already to sail? Short of that EH !

Val on the hard DAGNABIT, #3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 12/29/2007 : 13:33:05

I regretfully add...that Val is headed the right direction here... the half hour thing is just a moving the goal post thing until sailing can't work.

It may be hard for us to imagine... but sailing is for a minority of those who enjoy embracing nature... and that group is a minority itself and parceled among a huge variety of interest such as hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, kyaking... on and on.

If you love it... simply make it known to family and they will respect you for it and allow freedom to go do it in a way that doesn't drag them into something they may have a fear or anxiety about or simply a dislike. However, you must concede to making sailing an occasional thing. Your entitled to a few weekends a year and a summer cruise... but not to let it eat up all your time and energy.

You and they will be much happier doing it without the grumbling of those not into it. There is no rule that a family has to do all things together... they should however share significant activity.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2007 : 17:50:31

I'm suspicious that a change of venue isn't going to mean much to your kids as soon as they're on the boat and underway... It'll be the same old thing. At five, your oldest isn't old enough to enjoy sailing in any circumstance--his attention span isn't up to it. And when those little ones don't enjoy it (meaning melt-downs), your admiral will grow to hate it.

I'm gonna side with Randy here, except in reverse priority... A motorboat can be trailed and launched quickly and easily, goes fast, pulls tubes, wakeboards, skis, etc., can be beached, and will get you all out on the water again. Then some day, a small sailboat or two can teach your kids (and maybe even your admiral) the joy of the response of a boat to the wind. (...not really something you learn on a C-25, IMHO.) Then maybe they'll actually like sailing (instead of just being on a sailboat), and eventually a cruising sailboat will be of interest (...don't count on that till about age 30).

But they change fast! Do whatever it takes to take advantage of every minute.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/29/2007 17:55:30

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2007 : 12:19:35

Well, I do have a flats boat...with a Bimini top (of which I'm ridiculed by my buddies). Bimini allows me to take the family out during the day..then they shower and sleep at home. A little safer too as I can outrun the nasty thunderstorms that we get down here.

I got hooked on sailing due to a HobieCat 14 that my non sailng dad and I rented when I wae a wee lad. Actually was going to purchase a Hobie a few years back but figured the C25 would be a better fit for the admiral (dry boat w/head).

Along with the hobie I always liked the Force 5...maybe time to trade down...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 I'm suspicious that a change of venue isn't going to mean much to your kids as soon as they're on the boat and underway... It'll be the same old thing. And when those little ones don't enjoy it (meaning melt-downs), your admiral will grow to hate it.

I'm gonna side with Randy here, except in reverse priority... A motorboat can be trailed and launched quickly and easily, goes fast, pulls tubes, wakeboards, skis, etc., can be beached, and will get you all out on the water again. Then some day, a small sailboat or two can teach your kids (and maybe even your admiral) the joy of the response of a boat to the wind. (...not really something you learn on a C-25, IMHO.) Then maybe they'll actually like sailing (instead of just being on a sailboat), and eventually a cruising sailboat will be of interest (...don't count on that till about age 30).

But they change fast! Do whatever it takes to take advantage of every minute.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2007 : 12:42:44

Albert,
I can commiserate, Rita's a reluctant sailor at best, and after her accident the day after Thanksgiving, it'll be some time before I get her back on the boat.

I've thought about that eventuality a bit, and if it comes down to her not being able or interested, I'll probably sell both sailboats (I've got a San Juan 21 as well), and look into a Sol Cat 20 or something along those lines, and a custom dry suit so I can sail whenever I want to. One of the things I've noticed as I've moved up in sizes of boats is that there's less sailing and more driving. On my first catamaran, I never even had an engine, just a paddle, so I couldn't motor anywhere. If I was becalmed, I sat there & talked to my dog (he rarely answered, just lots of curious looks). If the wind piped up, it was a kick in the pants, there's nothing like flying a rail in weather you probably shouldn't be out in. But the trade off in sailing time vs simply time away from the rest of the world with Rita & the hound is worth it to me. Yes I'd like to do more sailing, but if we have to motor to get somewhere, I'm willing to make that tradeoff and hope we have favorable winds on the way home so I can sail instead of motor.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 12/30/2007 : 13:32:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by albert
 ...Along with the hobie I always liked the Force 5...maybe time to trade down...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">My favorite sailing was on a simple little Sunfish--hiked all the way out and planing across a lake.

Edited by - on

Alan Clark
Captain

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406 Posts

Response Posted - 01/02/2008 : 08:14:20

We loved our Catalina 22 and could rig it almost single handed. It was great when our kids were little until they "Left the nest". At some point we might go back to a 22, fast, easy boat to rig and sail and there are parts available. easy to trailer also. Good Luck,

Edited by - Alan Clark on 01/02/2008 08:15:04

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