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Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/16/2007 :  12:55:35  Show Profile
I quoted from another discussion and posted here separately because I didn’t want to hijack the original thread or interfere with it’s important sentiment of thanking the troops.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The problem with political posts is that we are all so ignorant and naive that we cannot actually add to the knowledge base through our opinions, and that makes upsetting others who disagree with us pointless, which quickly becomes mean-spirited. One thing I am certain of is that we would all have a great time sailing with any of us, and would welcome any of us to be our guest given the chance.

Merry Christmas guys.

Frank
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Right you are Frank and I just happened to have a story called "Hitting the Wall" in this month’s issue of the Clinton River Catalina Association’s newsletter that I think illustrates your point. So here it is as my Christmas, stocking stuffer, gift to the asociation. Click on the link below and scroll down to page #3
http://www.crcasail.org/catscan/cats0712/cats0712.pdf


L.Caricchio
ZINGARA – Sail #4222
C25 Fleet Captain-Fleet#3

Navigo Ergo Sum
https://www.createspace.com/3613985

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2007 :  13:43:19  Show Profile  Visit britinusa's Homepage
Great article. Oh how often we get those reminders on this forum.

Keep em flowing!

Paul

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5890 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2007 :  13:46:46  Show Profile
Great story, Renzo! It makes you wonder, though, why the freighter wasn't using his horn to alert them. It's scary to think that he might not have seen them either. Maybe he was absorbed in a good discussion, too.

By the way, do you think you can get the recipe for those martinis? That must have been a drink you'd just die for!

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
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Response Posted - 12/16/2007 :  14:03:41  Show Profile  Visit delliottg's Homepage
Nice story, and even if I'm not a big fan of martini's, sounds like a good recipe to have on hand.

I've never had a tanker sneak up like that on me, but I have gotten in between a barge & it's tow. The irony was, the skipper of our J92 was almost certainly the owner of both the barge and it's cargo that was about to run us down. Fog and darkness at the end of a very long day of racing can be pretty frightening. The worst part of it was, we had two other boats trailing us because our skipper was an old salt & everyone knew it, so they thought following him in was a good idea. We never actually saw or heard the tug boat, we only saw the towline hissing through the water, and the slap of waves on the barge bearing down on us. We managed to simultaneously get the hell out of dodge and communicate to the guys behind us to do the same. Fortunately we were all motoring, if we'd have been sailing, I'm not sure we'd have made it.

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1981capri
Navigator

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USA
175 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2007 :  14:09:18  Show Profile
Yes, Thanks for posting that link to your newsletter. Some interesting reading for a cloudy Sunday afternoon!!!

Reminds me of the first time I went out on the Columbia River with a friend of mine who has sailed on the river for years. I asked him if there was anything important I should know about sailing on the river and he said there are just 3 thing I can tell you that are important.
1.Watch out for barges.
2.Watch out for barges.
3.Watch out for barges.
Other then that just get out there and see what makes your boat go. Later he admitted that when he first started sailing on the river there was two occasions that he got 5 toot horn blasts from a barge he had not seen. As one was passing and we were tacking back behind it I heard him muttering something about the death star and may the force be with us.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2007 :  14:55:40  Show Profile
Nice piece of writing and a great graphic--all from one of our own! You sailors might not be able to relate to this, but I recently installed an honest-to-God rearview mirror on Sarge--a ski mirror--to help keep me aware of my backside, since my new kind of boating tends to require much more intense attention to the water ahead. (It really is a different mode of piloting--things come at you in a hurry.) Perhaps your friend's calm was based on determining that the bearing to the bow of the freighter was drifting aft (relative to you), which means you're gonna cross him. In any case, WHEW!! I learned long ago that big ships close on you a lot faster than you think.

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johnsonp
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606 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2007 :  15:00:47  Show Profile
<font color="blue"><font size="4"><font face="Comic Sans MS">This is called hitting the wall.





paulj</font id="Comic Sans MS"></font id="size4"></font id="blue">

Edited by - johnsonp on 12/16/2007 15:03:50
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britinusa
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Response Posted - 12/16/2007 :  16:55:15  Show Profile  Visit britinusa's Homepage
OUch!

Paul

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Renzo
Admiral

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621 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2007 :  09:05:51  Show Profile
The Martini recipe as quoted from another Cap'm Jim story
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">After just one of Cap'm Jim's patented, "Death Valley Dry-Torpedo-Juice Martinis" I was usually ready to damn, ram or slam any torpedoes that might come our way. The recipe for these caustic cocktails was as follows: a liberal amount of the cheapest Gin that Jim could find, poured slowly (so as not to spill any) over exactly one ice cube (enough to cool, but not dilute, the Gin) and the word “Vermouth” whispered softly over the rim of each plastic cup to lend character and distinction to the mixture. Olives were optional, but Jim felt they, severely and unnecessarily, reduced the volume of gin in the glass. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve - Thousand foot lake frieghters can't see anything closer than a half mile in front of their bow because of the angle of view from the bridge in the stern. Also if they blew their horn for every small boat that looked like it might get too close on the crowded shipping lanes of the Great Lakes they wouldn't have time for anything else. So your'e pretty much on your own.

Paul - I second the Ouch! and can you tell me what you were drinking when you did that!

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5890 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2007 :  10:22:36  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Renzo</i>
<br />Steve - Thousand foot lake frieghters can't see anything closer than a half mile in front of their bow because of the angle of view from the bridge in the stern. Also if they blew their horn for every small boat that looked like it might get too close on the crowded shipping lanes of the Great Lakes they wouldn't have time for anything else. So your'e pretty much on your own.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">At the Chesapeake Bay Bridge on weekends, there may be a dozen different fleets racing on race courses set up all around the approaches to the bridge, and it's a real challenge for the big guys to get through without taking out a small racer who thinks he can make it across the freighter's bow. Several years ago, the Coast Guard cited a racer who had a close call with a freighter at that location, and, as I recall, he was fined $10,000. I guess they wanted to send a message. Two years ago, I saw one freighter that I'd estimate blew his horn 30 times before the small boat got out of his way. The small boat continued to hold his course and speed, rather than starting his engine and getting out of the way. Unbelievable!

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Renzo
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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2007 :  13:41:40  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I saw one freighter that I'd estimate blew his horn 30 times before the small boat got out of his way. The small boat continued to hold his course and speed, rather than starting his engine and getting out of the way. Unbelievable!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Kinda like a flea thumb-wrestling with an elephant

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2007 :  14:11:04  Show Profile
With my marina being about a mile from the freighter channel, I can attest that even in broad daylight, a 1,000 ft laker can sneak up on you if you aren't paying attention. Until I safely cross the channel to open water, I'm constantly looking for freighters as they can pop out unannounced from the somewhat sheltered Livingstone channel.


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John Russell
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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2007 :  16:54:11  Show Profile
We (I ) have an issue with ferries more than the big ore boats in our channel. The planing ferries like to come through the narrowest part of the channel at speeds that insures they keep to their schedule. I know we have to give way to vessels with reduced maneuverability, but where does it say they can't slow down to a reasonable speed before entering the channel. Neptunes law of gross tonnage wins, of course.

Edited by - John Russell on 12/17/2007 16:55:21
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jerlim
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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2007 :  08:19:00  Show Profile
PLEASE tell me this is a fictional piece, if not, I think the point is being missed here - this guy is not only reckless but a fool. First to be drinking that hard while under way and then having no remorse and brag about it. I like martinis as much, if not more, than the next fellow (shaken NOT stirred) but we wait till we're done for the day. Poor judgement is one thing, but the flippant attitude is what really galls me. Too bad he didn't get busted for impairment. Jerks like this make it unsafe for all of us on the water.

Edited by - jerlim on 12/19/2007 08:19:59
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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2007 :  08:53:16  Show Profile
(Pssst: Jerry... You're talking about Renzo...)

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Ben
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1234 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2007 :  13:40:31  Show Profile
Something I don't get is "For the next few minutes, Cap'm Jim and I sat sipping our drinks and watching events unfold."

Granted, I've never had the opportunity to be in the way of a freighter, but it seems to me if they have a few minutes at hull speed to sit around with a drink, they should have enough time to tack and get the heck out of the way. I know when I'm at hull speed, I cover a bunch of water in a few minutes.

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Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2007 :  14:12:12  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> (Pssst: Jerry... You're talking about Renzo...)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Pssst: Dave... Jerry was talking about Cap'm Jim


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> PLEASE tell me this is a fictional piece, if not, I think the point is being missed here - this guy is not only reckless but a fool. First to be drinking that hard while under way and then having no remorse and brag about it. I like martinis as much, if not more, than the next fellow (shaken NOT stirred) but we wait till we're done for the day. Poor judgement is one thing, but the flippant attitude is what really galls me. Too bad he didn't get busted for impairment. Jerks like this make it unsafe for all of us on the water.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Jerry - Yes it is a partially fictional story based on a real event. But the point that I think your are missing is that the dangerous distraction was caused by the socio-political ranting of one of the sailors not the consumption of alcohol. (when they crossed paths with the freighter they were on the first martini and only a total of two martinis were consumed in the entire story) If you go back to my first post in this thread you will see that I referenced this particular story in support of a posting by Frank Hopper regarding the nature of political rants getting out of hand and detracting from the sailing camaraderie of the forum. I'm sorry if the story offended your sense of political correctness regarding boating and alcohol, and I agree that heavy drinking should be reserved for dockside as you suggest. However you should realize that others may disagree with you just as vehemently and hold that no one should ever indulge to excess or in fact some may strongly feel that no one should drink alcohol any amount. Personally I hope that people, especially sailors, can lighten up a bit from time to time and accept each others differences as long as they are not extreem. If sailors can't agree to disagree and still sail on the same vessel then we are all doomed.

Edited by - Renzo on 12/19/2007 14:14:59
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Renzo
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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2007 :  14:25:30  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ben</i>
<br />Something I don't get is "For the next few minutes, Cap'm Jim and I sat sipping our drinks and watching events unfold."

Granted, I've never had the opportunity to be in the way of a freighter, but it seems to me if they have a few minutes at hull speed to sit around with a drink, they should have enough time to tack and get the heck out of the way. I know when I'm at hull speed, I cover a bunch of water in a few minutes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ben - Once you are half-way it's just as far back as it is forward and as was pointed out in the story, when you tack, even a perfectly executed tack, you loose speed and if you bobble the tack you stall the boat and loose even more time. It's kind of like the old saying "it's too late to drain the swamp when you're up to your ass in alligators"

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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2007 :  14:48:30  Show Profile
Renzo - Many thanks for the clarification. I completely understand how a good rant can be completely distracting, in sailing and just about anything else. And your closing point is well made, we forget that there is more that unites us than divides us!

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2007 :  15:27:17  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Renzo</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> (Pssst: Jerry... You're talking about Renzo...)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Pssst: Dave... Jerry was talking about Cap'm Jim<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm glad you took it that way.

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Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 12/20/2007 :  07:48:21  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dave Bristle</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Renzo</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> (Pssst: Jerry... You're talking about Renzo...)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Pssst: Dave... Jerry was talking about Cap'm Jim<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm glad you took it that way.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That's the only way I could take it Dave. Cap'm Jim is a fictionalized character in a series of stories that are based on an old friend who incouraged me to get into the wonderful world of sailing many years ago.

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