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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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First time Dinghy project...

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/13/2007 : 17:31:59

The Plans arrived today for an "8-Ball" dinghy from Glen-L. I'm excited. I'm also wondering what the net effect of towing one of these behind the boat will be. Obviously some lost speed, but is there more I should be prepared for?

Just wondering since this is our first boat (the Catalina) and we are expecting next summer to be full of surprises once we have her inteh water. Adding layers of complexity scares me, but I want to make it out to the club's North Channel cruise at the end of the summer, and have to have all these things figured out by then.

Anyways, any advice about both building and towing are appreciated.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2007 : 18:09:15

Don't know about building a dink but we towed a Walker Bay 10 ("Duckling")behind our C250 for two weeks this fall in the San Juans. I was nervous but it ended up there was no need for concern. It towed beautifully about 10-12 feet off the stern. We had it trail the port side and tied to a port cleat on the transom. The only time you need to be careful is around the dock, of course. Our one mishap happened the first day as we departed. The tow line got caught in the outboard's prop. We fixed it quick and it never happened again. I am now considering a floating tow line. We used a 20' dock line with pre-spliced eye.

Next time we cruise we will have a small outboard on the dink and I hope to leave it mounted on the dink when we tow. The 2hp Evinrude only weighs 22 lbs.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2007 : 18:56:14

Chris,
I found [url="http://www.diy-boat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=210&Itemid=27"]this article[/url] about building your boat, you've probably already got it, but you never know. I bought the plans for building the [url="http://cullisonsmallcraft.com/Nutshell.htm"]nutshell pram[/url] a few years ago, got all the frames built and ran out of steam. I still have all the wood, I just need to find the time. I made it about as far as the first seven photos in the link above.

If you've got questions about wood or glue, etc., drop a line in here. I don't have fiberglass skills, but I can help you with most everything else up to that point.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2007 : 20:34:14

Functional was the key word for us, when we were deciding on which tender to buy. We bought a Zodiac because it is very stable for entry and exit and is a good tender for a dog. We're on a mooring ball, so quite often we have to load and unload cooler and batteries and water and dog and guests and etc in bumpy conditions. A man can stand on any part of a Zodiac and be confident it will remain stable.

I found that I thought about way too many things before I bought and actually sailed my C25. The reality of sailing and boat management was a lot simpler than my expectations. That said, it was a fun and exciting time, and knowing as much as you can in advance, is exactly the right thing to do.

Use a floating line for your tow line (painter). Sail lots, have fun.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2007 : 21:54:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 I am now considering a floating tow line... Next time we cruise we will have a small outboard on the dink and I hope to leave it mounted on the dink when we tow...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Use a polypropylene painter (like a ski-tow rope)--it floats. And I'd generally recommend against leaving the outboard on except in calm seas, especially on a light, hard dink. It increases drag and, because it raises the center of gravity, endangers the outboard.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 12/13/2007 21:56:32

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2007 : 05:49:51

Instead of a floating line, has anyone ever used those foam noodles you can buy at Walmart. I also saw someone used them on their mooring ball for the lines that lead down to the ball. I am going to try this in the spring. I found that my lines tended to get down and wrap around the chain below the ball. I am guessing this happens in light air while the baot drifts from side to side.
Thinking maybe I need to equip my mooring ball with a time elapse camera as research project for some major university ;)

Edited by - Chris Z on 12/14/2007 05:50:33

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2007 : 07:43:04

Chris: The noodles are a good idea for the mooring, but you want a floating line for the dinghy painter unless you're thinking about 25' of noodles...

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DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2007 : 08:43:53

I also was a little concerned about towing a dinghy but found it was not a problem. With my 8' inflatable leaving my Suzuki 2.5 on board was not a problem either. Of course I would remove it in rough seas. And Chris, that's a great idea to use the Walmart foam noodle. I have gotten the tow rope caught in my outboard prop even though I've got a float and I think I'll try the noodle close to the boat where it'll be out of the water unless I'm at a standstill. The only other problem I had was not securing the dinghy before entering a harbor. I would advise not repeating my mistake

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2007 : 09:05:55

At the risk of a hijack, I've thought about using those same noodles to replace our lifeline covers. Currently they're just extremely thin opencell foam with a sunbrella cover. My thought is to make larger covers to fit over the noodles and slide them onto the lifelines. They'll provide much more support than the current ones, and even if you have to replace the foam every year, it's less than $10 to do the whole boat.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1892 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2007 : 14:06:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector The Plans arrived today for an "8-Ball" dinghy from Glen-L. ... what the net effect of towing one of these behind the boat will be. Obviously some lost speed, but is there more I should be prepared for? ... advice about both building and towing are appreciated.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Congratulations on your C-25, and on deciding to build the 8-Ball. I collected plans for a handfull of small plywood dinghies before building a modified D4. Here are some random observations derived from hindsight.
<ul><li>Plan carefully. Build the boat in your head with as much detail as you have the patience and imagination for, before beginning actual construction. This certainly doesn't eliminate unpleasant surprises, but it sure cuts down on their number and severity.</li>
<li>Decide on a target level of build quality, and stick with it at every step along the way. (Hint: don't be seduced by the show quality degree of finish you've been drooling over in all those back issues of Wooden Boat magazine!)</li>
<li>Keep the weight down. This requires constant vigilance and dicipline. Along those same lines, don't try to cut costs on your choice of plywood. Get the thinnest marine grade you can locate, and cost be damned. (3/16" special order vs. 1/4" AC ext. at Home Depot.) Also, assuming you're going to build stitch&glue, not chine log, don't get too carried away with massive layers of heavy fiberglass at the joints -- two layers is probably enough, and you can get that by overlapping the large flat sections of cloth at the seams. A couple extra layers of fiberglass along the forward portion of the keel where the boat hits the beach is probably worth the added weight.</li>
<li>Large radius stitch&glue joints are a good idea, but keep the filler very light weight, not super high density for overkill strength.</li>
<li>Shape that epoxy mush as early and as soft as you can! Large disposable plastic spoons, ping-pong like balls, careful clean up with plastic body putty spreaders, etc. You'll be sanding out plenty of mistakes without deliberately creating more of that work for your self.</li>
<li>As I recall, the 8-Ball design uses a centerboard and kick up rudder. These are both highly desirable features in a beachable dinghy. (And a dinghy which beaches easily is a lot more useful and fun.)</li>
<li>For stitches, I used copper wire and removed it with a torch and pliers. Using nylon zip-ties and leaving them in would probably be easier.</li>
<li>For what it worth ideas: built in storage for a battery to power an electric trolling motor; lockable storage for valuables; permanent flotation; tiny eye-straps to lash down cargo; little nylon docking cleats near all corners; very strong tow points, both high and low; hand built/modified sail rig which can be securely stored inside the towed dink (2-pc mast, etc.);</li>
<li>Don't finalize your oarlock locations until after you test row the boat (photos available).</li>
<li>Cover all large plywood surfaces with fiberglass, inside and out. It can probably be a single layer of very thin cloth on the interior and topsides, but don't count on resin alone to prevent checking.</li></ul>As I recall, towing my D4 behind my C-25 costs me about 1/2 to 1 knot of boat speed, depending on weather conditions. When towing, plan ahead. If you're going to be crossing big water, ask yourself what would happen next if the towed dink flipped, or otherwise filled with water? If weather conditions deteriorate enough for a swamped dinghy to take you by surprise, don't expect to safely and easily haul that albatross on deck in open water.

The swim noodles to keep the painter out of the prop is a good idea. On open water, I use two painters, in case one parts, and to aid in positioning the tow. Shorten up the tow as much as possible before entering harbor. If there's a way for the painter to get snagged under the dink, it will, and in the worst possible conditions.

In Bruce Bingham's "The Sailor's Sketchbook", the 12-page chapter on yacht tenders is worth more than the price of the entire book (but the same can probably be said for the rest of the chapters as well

).

-- Leon S.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2007 : 14:51:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Build the boat in your head...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The head on our C250 is way to small to build a dink in.

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John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:49:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Leon Sisson
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector The Plans arrived today for an "8-Ball" dinghy from Glen-L. ... what the net effect of towing one of these behind the boat will be. Obviously some lost speed, but is there more I should be prepared for? ... advice about both building and towing are appreciated.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
[list]
<li>Decide on a target level of build quality, and stick with it at every step along the way. (Hint: don't be seduced by the show quality degree of finish you've been drooling over in all those back issues of Wooden Boat magazine!)</li><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Go ahead and get seduced by the "show quality". Just remember it starts at the very first turn of the saw blade with the very first cut. Not with the sandpaper at the end.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2007 : 16:27:53

Thanks everyone for the ideas. I appreciate them all.

If I can offer a little in return: The guy we've been sailing with for the past year uses the pool noodles on his C-27 for lifeline covers. They work fine with or without the sunbrella on them. at $0.97 they are quite disposable. Also when you drop the hook, you can take them off and use them for swimming.

Another valuable use for the noodles is cartopping small boats (canoes/kayaks/dinghies). We have often used the pool noodles when roof racks or foam blocks weren't available. Adjust the number of noodles and locations to suit the car and boat, and don't over, or under tighten the lines holding it down.

Oh, and Nauti, I think if I build it in the head in our house it might be OK, but getting it out of there would be a pain.

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2007 : 16:30:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 I bought the plans for building the [url="http://cullisonsmallcraft.com/Nutshell.htm"]nutshell pram[/url] a few years ago, got all the frames built and ran out of steam.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You got farther than our friend, he bought those same plans, and hasn't gotten past lofting the stations. Part of teh appeal of the 8-ball was that we wouldn't have tonnes of intermediate steps. As a first attempt, we don't expect a work of beauty, but something that is adequate for our needs.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2007 : 17:10:20

One of the things I've learned in subsequent projects, shoot for a 1/16" tolerance. If I can pull a table's apron & legs into 1/16th of square, I figure I've done well. I used to shoot for perfection, and drove myself crazy in the process. 1/16th is "good enough" for me now. If anyone ever put a caliper up against the last set of legs I turned on my lathe, they'd be surprised at the differences, but even if you know they're there, they're hard to see.

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