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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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motor troubles again

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cmckitrick
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USA
116 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/10/2007 : 06:47:01

Hi everyone. I have had intermitant problems starting my '95 Mercury 8 hp motor. I had one instance this season when it would not start but other than that its been great. Now of course it is time to haul out and wouldnt you know it is acting up. I have been letting the choke out all the way, starting it and then putting the choke back in. The Mercury shop says that is wrong. I should pull it out, push it back in, then start it. Otherwise I am flooding it. I would like to think it is just the way I am starting it. But what I dont get if, say he is right and it floods, it just will not start after that, Not for an hour sometimes not for days. Its like if you flood it you are done and who knows when the thing is going to start again. I tried disconnecting the gas line and pulling on it to try to clear but that did not work. I went out the next day to start and it would not go but I reazlized in my angst I had left the choke out all the way before I left. I dont know if that did anything. I am going to give it a few more days and let it sit.

Haul out is in two weeks and I have to motor it about 45 min away for that.

If anyone has any ideas on starting and "unflooding" let me know. Thanks.

Charlie McKitrick
Norwell, MA
Valiant Lady... for now
'81 C 25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 07:01:03

I never really flooded my Honda 8 but I question how you can flood it by pulling the choke out and pushing it back in. The movement of the pistons is what sucks the gas in to the combustion chamber.
Do You have good gas? You can help get rid of this flooded engine problem by taking the spark plugs out and seeing if they are wet and blow drying them, also making sure that it is gas on them and not water. If they are not wet I don't think you have a flooded engine problem. JMTCW

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 07:24:54

I actually had a problem where the hose connection to the gas tank was sucking air and both sides of the connection were brand new. I used plumbers tape to thicken the male part a bit. Check every connection, make sure the ball pumps up and stays hard, work the kill switch in and out several times to make sure it's got a solid connection. Get a new plug just for the heck of it and make sure it's properly gapped. Boy, there's a lot of stuff! There's also a filter right after the hose to engine connection on my motor, you might check that. A couple years ago I let my Johnson 50 (goes to my 14 ft. trihull)sit all year and it wouldn't start until I took the carb apart and blew compressed air through all the orifices. And of course like bear said, make sure your gas is not to old. Good luck!

Edited by - on

cmckitrick
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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 07:54:50

The gas was fresh this season and I've actually changed it twice thinking water might have gotten into it. The spark plugs are new. The bulb is funny. Sometimes it doesnt get that hard and sometimes it does. But this has happened with other tanks. The mystery to me is once it doesnt start there is no sign of any sparks going on.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 08:20:18

Charlie,

The so called choke knob on your particular outboard is actually a primer. When fully pulled, it depresses a spring loaded ball bearing check valve which allows extra fuel to flow into carb when starting. If you leave the knob pulled out, fuel will gush into the carb resulting in a flooded engine. So when starting your outboard, pull the "primer" knob all the way out, push it back in, then start your outboard. If it doesn't start in one or two pulls, pull the primer out, push it back in, then give it another pull.

At the beginning of this season, that check valve on my outboard became stuck open which resulted in me not being able to start my outboard. This would be the same as if I left the primer knob out while starting the outboard.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 08:36:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The Mercury shop says that is wrong. I should pull it out, push it back in, then start it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">HUH?? Does he think it's an automotive automatic choke? Remember when we used to push the gas peddle down to set the automatic choke, then release it and turn the key? I don't think your 2-stroke Merc has one of them... and I don't think your problem is flooding. If it was, a few pulls with the choke open (pushed in) and the throttle wide open would generally clear it--then you wait a few minutes, half-choke, and start.

I'm also suspicious of the kill switch--and the coil and spark wire. Exercise the switch as DaveR suggests, and look for corrosion at any connections to the coil, the switch, etc. Also check that the spark wire isn't worn bare and contacting the block somewhere. (The vibration can do that.) Dampness can even compromise the aging insulation on a spark wire to the point that sparks leak to the block.

When the engine is "dead" like that, pull the wire off the plug and hold it close to the connector (or any bare metal on the engine) while you pull the starter, and see if you can see a spark.

One more thing... E-10 gas is known to be causing problems with the primer bulbs and their flappers on older gas lines. If you can't reliably get a hard bulb, that would be another suspect.

You'll get it--this ain't rocket science!

(But it might be too complicated for that guy at the shop!)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/10/2007 08:46:27

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 09:09:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Charlie,

The so called choke knob on your particular outboard is actually a primer. When fully pulled, it depresses a spring loaded ball bearing check valve which allows extra fuel to flow into carb when starting. If you leave the knob pulled out, fuel will gush into the carb resulting in a flooded engine. So when starting your outboard, pull the "primer" knob all the way out, push it back in, then start your outboard. If it doesn't start in one or two pulls, pull the primer out, push it back in, then give it another pull.

At the beginning of this season, that check valve on my outboard became stuck open which resulted in me not being able to start my outboard. This would be the same as if I left the primer knob out while starting the outboard.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Wow, I bet that confuses a lot of owners, sounds like they need something on the cowling explaining that.
I had an electric start Evenrude that would act strange sometimes. It would not start occasionally, as if it were flooded, but if I would tilt it back up and hit the button it would fire up, then I would let it back down into the water quickly and it was happy. That would be impossible on a pull start. I always figured it was doing something to the carburetor bowl. Might try it if you have an electric start.

Edited by - on

tinob
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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 09:25:21

Charlie, at first I thought , yeah right, pull out the choke and then push it back in. Then Don's explanation that it wasn't a choke but a primer set everything straight with me. If it's a primer do as Mercury says. You will have to clear your plugs before it will start. I'd pull the plugs, set them aside and with the throttle as fully open as possible crank you motor over until the cylinders are dry then reinsert the plugs and it should start. If it doesn't then repeat the above until it does, shouldn't take but a few tries to dry everything up.

Best of luck in a really trying operation.

Val on Calista, # 3936, Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 09:26:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Frank Hopper
 Wow, I bet that confuses a lot of owners,...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It sure confused me! I can't imagine a function like that with what looks like a normal choke lever. I've used engines with spring-loaded buttons that did that. (Push and start.) Merc always did some strange things...

Edited by - on

cmckitrick
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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 09:52:56

Thanks for everyone's help. I've suspected the kill switch thing though I noticed that once I start it and then start sailing and shut if off, I have never had it not start up again, Thank God. One question I had about drying out the cylinders. I can only start it in neutral so I'm not sure how to start with full throttle with the plugs out as Dave suggested.

Edited by - on

Don B
Captain

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USA
317 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 10:12:32

Charlie mentions a "funny" bulb...my bulb wasn't funny...it actually pi$$ed me off. Brand new fuel hose and after several frustrating hours found that the valves inside the bulb were faulty. Try a new fuel line.

Good luck.

Edited by - on

farrison
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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2007 : 10:14:02

Charlie;

I have a 15hp Merc about the same vintage as yours, and when I first started using it, I had the same problem. But then I looked at the "choke" knob carefully, and it does say "Primer" on it, not choke. What Don L. above says is correct, I had the same issues starting it that you did, I treated it like a choke and would leave it out when the engine first started cold. The engine would then die, and be hard to re-start, like it was flooded (which it was). My Merc does have a faded sticker, with really small print, on the cowl that gives starting instructions. Once I read the instructions, I dawned on me that this is just like the carbs on my Triumph motorcycle, they don't have a choke on them, You press down on a button that overfills the carb bowls, and the excess gas gets pulled into the cylinders, making the mixture rich, like a choke.
The instructions on my Merc cowl does say to pull out the knob to prime and then push it back in. So now I pull the primer knob out, pull on the rope once, to suck a little gas into the carb, and then push it back in to continue to start it. Sometimes it starts on that first pull, and I push the knob in immediately, per the cowl instructions, even if the engine is cold. If it were a choke, you would let it warm up first.

Good luck with your haul out, mine is in another month.

Paul

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2007 : 10:42:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Merc always did some strange things...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Strange or innovative?

Having a primer instead of just a pure choke is rather innovative to me. It functions the same as the prime on my throttle body fuel injection system I had in my car.

To me, the best Merc innovation is the integrated shifter/throttle and it amazes me that no other outboard manufacturer has copied it.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3430 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2007 : 11:28:49

Another innovation...not sure if all the motors are like this now but my Honda does not have a choke or primer. It is supposedly done electronically. No muss, no fuss. One less thing to deal with and so far, just push the button to start or pull the rope starter and it's running.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2007 : 12:20:31

Larry--that's just part of that extra 20 lbs...

Mine worked great too--like starting the car.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2007 : 18:10:37

Dont know if anyone mentioned this, but based on what you said shop had advised you, I would find another shop. Good Luck.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2007 : 18:53:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Dont know if anyone mentioned this, but based on what you said shop had advised you, I would find another shop. Good Luck.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">No, if you read all of the posts, they were right--I (for one) was "confused." (But that's how it gets....)

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Davy J
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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2007 : 07:51:10

I have been reading this forum for quite a while and have gotten great information from it, thanks to all of you!

On my Mercury 9.9 Sailmaster I had an issue that drove me crazy for weeks. It would start and run great one day, run rough on some days, and not start at all occasionally. After changing fuel, fuel line, carb rebuild and generally pulling my hair out. I found the problem. The wires that run to the lanyard kill switch have another set of larger wires running directly over them, closer to the carb. The larger wires had chafed the kill switch wires and exposed the bare wires. This caused them to short occasionally and make the motor run rough or not start at all. Once I found this, resealed the wires and added some protection in the form electrical tape, the motor runs smooth. Hope it helps!

David

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2007 : 08:21:20

Thanks for jumping in, David--the water's fine! Wires + vibration = chafe. Ask our past commodore and racer/cruiser extraordinaire, Jim B. (Sorry Jim--I'll never be able to let that go!)

So, David, what brought you here and whatcha got?

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2007 : 08:40:04

Sailing Tampa Bay, 1987 C-25 Standard Rig, Swing Keel #5509. Found this forum after I bought her about three years ago. The forum has been a great source of information. I just never got around to posting, but after two weeks of aggrevation with my motor, and something that might not get checked like this, I hope that this might save cmckitrick some time!

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