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250 MKII pictures

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2007 : 09:02:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Because the starboard cockpit locker no longer has the propane tank, they removed the leaky coaming pockets.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Russ, our 2005 WB has the coaming pockets and the new style stove so no propane tank in the cockpit lockers. I think it is a mistake to omit the pockets, besides, there is a huge space behind the gunwhales that is basically useless, I have seen WB's with additional pockets because they are such useful storeage spaces.

We keep the wash down hose in the port pocket, the stbd pocket is home for sundry items. More storage is good. (as you can see from Henk's posting of his mods.)

Paul

Edited by - on

Slider
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2007 : 17:30:39

I was driving through Punta Gorda this week on the way to a conference, so stopped by Punta Gorda Yacht Sales to take a few pictures of their 2008 250. You can see how the backstay is set up on only the port side now.
Bill

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2007 : 21:59:50

Looks like back stay in front of swim ladder. Makes it hard for person to exit or board.
Steve

Edited by - on

britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 01:44:09

that's where the backstay is located on our 2005 C250WB, and yes, it is a pain!
There is something different about the transom.. I'll have to take a Pic of JD and compare.
Nice to see someone else with the same make of trailer.

A new boat sure looks pretty!

Paul.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 08:30:17

I noticed the SS vent on the back of the fuel locker is on the port side. On my 97 its located on the starboard side. No big deal when just used for a vent. Except I and many others use the vent as a means to run the fuel line out of the fuel locker to the outboard. With it now being on the port side it could get in the way with the rudder.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 09:10:43

I agree... Catalina still has not found a reasonable home for the backstay... I'd not want it at the location in the pic. We use the open transom for boarding both while on the road and while cruising to take a daily swim.

The kids love to sit at the open transom and dangle their feet as well as enjoy the boat as a swim platform.

It appears to me that some of the changes on the 250 have an assumption of a slipped boat mentality.

One solution might be to make the stern seats optional... my sailing needs for example have no need for the stern seats and because they are what causes the backstay problem... I'm happier not having them and having no backstay issues.

Stern seats were started on the '97 model.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 10:51:40

You can take my home, my car, even my freedom...but do not even think about taking away the cat-bird seats from my C250.

Those are the most popular seats on the boat.

How about an arch, stainless steel, over the transom? Sort of a low-key and tasteful version of what the ski boats employ to raise the tow rope level. Run the backstay, split or not, to that. This would also provide a platform for radar, cockpit lighting, etc.

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mhartong
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 12:04:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
How about an arch, stainless steel, over the transom? Sort of a low-key and tasteful version of what the ski boats employ to raise the tow rope level. Run the backstay, split or not, to that. This would also provide a platform for radar, cockpit lighting, etc.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sounds a bit like a Hunter

Mark

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 12:11:49

Hey Randy... I recognize that the seats are well thought of by many... wasn't suggesting taking them away from any one who values them.

An arch might solve the issue, but would it create issues with installing a bimini?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 14:05:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 An arch might solve the issue, but would it create issues with installing a bimini?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would think it would actually make the bimini installation easier assuming the backstay is attached to the arch. Simply make it high enough for the bimini to extend from it or go under it. I would guess that the hard part would be making the arch structurally sound enough to hold the backstay. I think it would have to be integral to the transom, not just an add-on.

Oh, yeah, Hunter

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 14:45:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Russ.Johnson
 ...In picture-3, the outboard mount is reinforced with starboard and flat. Mine is reinforced with stainless and a lip to catch the outboard from slipping. I had my outboard slip once while motoring in following seas...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You could probably solve that by using a large spade bit to drill two shallow indentations about 1/4" into the inner Starboard plate, positioned for the outboard clamps. Starboard works like hard soap with any woodworking tools.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 16:01:49

Paul, I believe you spread apart both backstay cables using a rod of some kind? This was to accomodate/improve a bimini installation. Could you post clearer pictures of this please? I often hit my face on the port side backstay cable. I think that's how Catalina should design the backstay.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 21:53:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Looks like back stay in front of swim ladder. Makes it hard for person to exit or board.
Steve
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That is a terrible place for the backstay! I'm on a mooring and that entranceway is not only for people to get on, but for loading a cooler from the dinghy and various bags and gear onto and off the boat. Did you ever lift a full cooler from the dinghy to the boat? You slide it up onto the floor while trying not to push away from the boat and/or falling in the drink! I'll take my split backstay - thankyou. And Catalina should get back to functionality rather than creating a bigger profit margin.

Eliminating the coaming compartments was bad enough. Guess it makes my 2003 worth that much more.

(end rant)

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 22:26:36

does anyone have an idea on what the notch is for on the OB bracket support?

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2007 : 23:19:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by zebra50
 does anyone have an idea on what the notch is for on the OB bracket support?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Transom drainage.

I like the idea of the Hunter 260 with no backstay especialy on a small boat like this.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 10/27/2007 23:20:42

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 07:17:38

Steve, I agree.

The rig on the 250 is a modified B&R rig being that it has radical raked spreaders to eliminate forward lower shrouds. Usually such a rig also has the backstay eliminated.

I wonder if this is a Frank Butler emotional issue... just not accepting a rig not needing a backstay or perhaps he sees the backstay as a sales gimmick to promote a higher quality rig than his competitors.

The prime advantage of a backstay is for on the fly rig tuning with a backstay adjuster and that really can't be done any how, so it does seem to me that the shroud chain plates should have been positioned such as to allow for no backstay. Doing so may have required a slightly larger upper shroud size.

Turk, I couldn't agree more... securing the backstay into the open transom area was not a good call.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2007 : 17:02:13

Frank is not the only one that does not want to let go of backstays. I know a Catalina dealer that used to be a Hunter dealer. When Hunter dropped the backstays, he dropped Hunter.

Making no comment on the actual need for a backstay or not, just pointing out that there could be marketing reasons why Frank kept the backstay, not just emotional.

Kevin

Edited by - on

528
Navigator

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USA
181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2007 : 21:23:16

That backstay position will create a new definition for "Toe Jam"!

(Not a good combo with the locker "Ankle Busters")

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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2017 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2007 : 22:55:39

Kevin, I will second that.
Steve

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 03:39:34

When in business to sell a product... marketing = emotional and changes can often be a tough emotional (marketing) sale.

When the 250 was released... the "I'd never have an open transom" comments freely flowed.

Then "I'd never have a rig without forward lowers" followed.

As always, change comes sometimes hard and there is always some marketing hype to portray a boat like the 250 as an entry level to the big boys. I'm not sure it is still the slogan... but the first 250s were touted as "Having a big boat feel". I think the backstay might be buried in that hype.

It could also be that the backstay offers an illusion of redundancy to the rig. The word illusion is used because, there is no redundancy on the forestay... if it lets go, the rig is coming down... absolutely true with a CDI furler unless a running baby stay is used as do I when cruising.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 10/30/2007 09:04:34

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 10:52:39

Arlyn, are you saying you normally cruise leaving the baby stays in place?
Our baby stays are directly abeam of the mast foot.

Paul.

Edited by - on

Mike013
1st Mate

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USA
64 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 18:25:52

Arlyn,

What is the history of failed forestays on the 250. Will the baby stays prevent the mast from falling or will they slow it down enough to clear the cockpit. Do you rig the baby stays on the same stanchion used for raising and lowering the mast?

If it adds anything to a safer operation, then installing the bay stays before each cruise sounds like a good idea.

Maybe this discussion deserves a thread of its own.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 19:26:15

I think he means using the jib halyard as a baby "forestay" to provide redundancy.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2007 : 20:02:29

That's what I thought too, Randy.

Arlyn, does this running stay interfere with tacking and sail trim.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 10/31/2007 : 15:59:09

I have used the jib halyard as a safety stay to provide redundancy for the headstay when cruising.

The only forestail failures I've heard about resulted from not pinning the forestay turnbuckle, which led to the furler spinning the turnbuckle apart and subsequent dismasting.

What I call a running baby stay however is something different and novel and is probably something only a cruiser would use. It is another Arlyn Stewart creation designed to solve a problem unique to the 250. It is not standing rigging but rather a low stretch line secured at the spreaders and falling to the mast base and terminating to a ring. Made to the ring is bungee that goes thru a mast base turning block and then back to the spreaders. In use, a pendant line from a sheet winch is led forward and thru a stem block and back to the ring. When the pendant is hauled, the baby stay is hauled tight between the spreaders and the stem. When relaxed, the bungee retracts the line to the mast and the pendant lies on the foredeck out of the way of tacking.

The primary purpose is to allow use of a backstay tensioner. If a tensioner is used on the 250 in stock form, the tensioner will only have partial application. When it is hardened, it will firm up the forstay and flatten the jib, but will have the opposite effect upon the main because the forward force on the spreaders is relaxed... making it fuller and more powerful.

The running baby stay holds the center of the mast forward so that it doesn't suffer reverse bend when a backstay tensioner is hardened.

The 250 stock rig is a one tune rig... tight for heavy air. Lighter air performance benefits greatly from powering up a rig, making the sails fuller. The rig has to be loosened to do that. A running baby stay in conjunction with a backstay tensioner, gives on the fly rig tuning choice.

The minor advantage is that it offers some redundancy but that is not a big thing, because as several noted, that can be gained by making the jib halyard to the bow pulpit.

As to the problems associated with using one. It gets in the way of tacking so must be released prior to a tack and then reset after. For this reason, it is likely more of a cruising item as cruisers often lay to the same tack for hours.

I use the same pendant line that is used for the drifter as the baby stay would not be employed simultaneous with the drifter.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 10/31/2007 16:12:06

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