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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Spinnaker Pole questions

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bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/24/2007 : 11:35:14

I'd like to find out what kind of spinnaker pole you all have? How long is it? Any recommendations? I have a telescoping whisker pole - can that be used for a spinnaker pole? Thanks for your help and advice - once again!

Bill B
Wind Dancer
#4036 84 SR/FK
San Francisco Bay

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2007 : 12:34:00

I have a pole I got off a C27, it is 11' 3" inches. The max length to be class legal is 10' 6" HOWEVER the longer pole is better so I have not shortened mine. I am not racing in C25 Nationals. It doesn't matter in PHRF (declare the true length on your rating application). Why is the longer pole better? I can drop the pole and have it sit on the pulpit. Also you do not ever want the pole to go inside the forestay by accident. The spin points better under the longer pole, too. Why a shorter pole? When you run dead downwind you can get a better angle with the shorter pole. Mine is too long and so I can't bring it back to the right position.

You need a pole with a bridal (spelling?) for the pole lift and another for the foreguy. You also need trip lines to release the lines from the jaws for gybing the pole. If you set your whisker pole to 10' 6" (personally I think 11' would be perfect) and installed the bridals and trip cords you could never extend the whisker pole again. 11' is OK for poling out a 110 or even a 135 but it is too short for poling out a 155.

I traded my whisker pole for the spinnaker pole and its been a good trade for me. If it is too windy for the spin I can pole out the 135 with it. With the bridals I have 100% control over the pole's position and the shape of the sail.

What I would do (knowing your location in windy SF bay) is keep the whisker pole and beg borrow or trade for an old spinnaker pole - there are plenty around from old race boats sold to cruisers who will never go up spin in their life.

I'll post a photo soon of my spinnaker setup.

Wish us well on the San Diego - Ensenada race - should be a spin run all the way down.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2007 : 13:28:19

Hey Bill, I've heard that the whisker pole is not built to take the stress angles that the Spin pole does. We also got a free pole from a slightly larger boat. Haven't cut it down. Its several inches over 10.5 feet. But haven't got together all the spin gear either as am always singlehanding. Meant to do it this year...maybe next. Tell me about your chowder races. Our mug series ended. I took a 3rd overall for the series. whooohoo.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 09:42:26

flying the spinnaker is so much fun. Don't put it off. I can fly mine with the wind just forward of the beam to dead aft, but it is much more fun on a beam reach. This powers up the boat like a supercharger + turbo. You'll see speeds in the 7 to 8 knot range.

I do it single handed all the time. Its work, but I can go up in about 10 minutes. It takes some practice and some willingness to scramble cockpit to bow about 3 times. Set everything possible up before you leave the dock.

I do have a sock, that makes single handed (or double handed) much easier, also you could not do this without an autopilot.

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bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 13:29:00

I don't have an autopilot Jim ... so I'll be flying a chute only during non-single-handed races. It sounds a bit dicey doing it by yourself. There was a guy last year on the single-handed Farallones race who got his spinnaker wrapped around his forestay coming in through the gate. He couldn't unwrap it, or cut it down, nor could he turn or stop (it was a typical SF breezy day). He had to abandon ship just before it sailed into the rocks below Pt. Bonita lighthouse. The CG pulled him out but his boat was wrecked. As I recall he was quite an experienced single-handed racer too. So - Be careful!!

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 13:56:01

SD=5mph SF=50mph

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 09/25/2007 13:56:35

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 14:49:02

It's pretty dicey getting the whisker pole up on a breezy day with an autopilot when single handing SFBay. Sure would want someone steering when setting the sym spin on a C25. Then there is the getting it down part. Two of us with the assym on my buddies boat put on a show for the pier 39 lookers one day. Takes some practice.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 15:36:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PZell
 It's pretty dicey getting the whisker pole up on a breezy day with an autopilot when single handing SFBay. Sure would want someone steering when setting the sym spin on a C25...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm a singlehanded sailor myself with both symmetrical and assymetrical spinnakers each with their own sock...One day, I'm going to use them.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 16:31:29

I have a sock, autopilot, and thousands of miles experience single handing with hank on jibs (makes a big difference when it is time to go forward in a blow, you are used to it). I also don't fly spin alone above about 10 knots or in rough seas. I wear my harness but don't clip in.

The sock really, really helps getting it down (which is when it counts). It even helps a great deal with forestay wraps - both in prevention and if you get one you can at least pull the sock down halfway and get rid of that big uncontrollable balloon at the top of the forestay.

I would cut everything away long before I would abandon Indiscipline to some rocks.

Last week it was past sunset, it was suddenly really breezy plus a big wind shift, and I was getting quickly set down onto the cliffs of Point Loma. It was time to get it down.

Under AP, I hauled in the main tight, turned downwind, eased both sheets 10 feet, the spin was blowing out in front of the boat. I went forward, and pulled down the sock.

Then I went back to the cockpit, tightened 1 sheet a little, and then dropped the sock onto the deck.

Done in 2 minutes. I also had to dodge kelp plus a clueless motor boat during this time.

Turned 180 degrees, went forward, packed the spin bag and secured the pole and spin sheets. Returned to cockpit, went up jib. Sailed home and ended motoring in 0 wind.

I totally disagree with the "fly in any wind" attitude of most racers. If it is really breezy I will just pole out my 135. I can't afford to lose the boat or my sail.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 09/25/2007 : 18:14:06

The fella that this happened to had actually won the race in 2003 (perhaps other years too... don't know). He was single-handing an Aerodyne 38. He was definitely a very experienced and accomplished. I'm sure from what I remember reading that he did not abandon without trying everything. He did try cutting it away too - but it stayed up and full and kept pulling him to shore. His anchor was of no help. It was a scary story really - there just nothing he could do. Anyway, I'm just mentioning this because I'm always trying to think about all the 'what if' scenarios. I don't want to be dumped into the Pacific. If you aren't picked up quickly you can kiss your a## goodbye... it's just tooo cold.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 13:29:49

Yes, but I'll bet he didn't have a sock. Since the sock is at the top of the mast, you can pull it down over the ballooning part of the sail. Racers disdain socks but I like mine.

I had a very bad wrap once (another boat) offshore, at night, in strong wind. It is frightening and you can't control the boat because however you turn the balloon swings around to downwind (more wraps) and the boat just goes to leeward. I don't think we could have pulled the sail down even if we cut halyard and sheets. The sock would have made this a non-problem (I think I could have winched it down over the balloon if I had time).

I wonder if I would consider dropping the mast in that guy's situation? Probably not enough time, since I would be fighting the wrap right up to the bitter end, while also trying to be motoring away from the coast, or anchoring.

Anyhow, thanks for the tip, searoom needed when flying spin single handed.

Edited by - JimB517 on 09/26/2007 13:32:04

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 14:18:21

Jim: Having experienced together the excitement of sailing with a spinnaker, in San Diego last year, I finally obtained an "as new" spinnaker from "redviking", (Sten Hillmen). However, it comes without a "dousing sock", or spinnaker pole. Any idea where to buy/obtain a sock and/or spinaker pole, how best to rig and what additional deck hardware is required. Pictures, drawings and/or forum references would be nice/helpful. I would agree that a "sock" is essential...
thanks in advance

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 18:24:49

The sock is actually called a chutescoop, here it is:

http://www.chutescoop.com/

West marine sells the spinnaker pole, they are expensive. I don't know how long it should be on a C250. 10' 6" is probably good.

You also need a turtle bag. It is easier to use than a regular sailbag. Chutescoop sells them, too. It holds the sail in the sock and has hanks to clip on the forestay for hoisting, and a big wire ring to hold the bag open.

You need a block on the foredeck to hold the pole downhaul or more commonly called the foreguy. This line goes to the pole and then back to the cockpit, you may remember it as the red line on my boat on the portside. You need a jam cleat to hold this line. The block should be through bolted.

You need a block about 1/2 way up the mast to hold the pole lift. This line also runs back to the cockpit and has a jam cleat. You may remember this as the white and red line in the jam cleat on starboard on my boat.

You need at least a ring on the mast facing forward to hold the end of the spin pole when in use. I have a track so my ring is adjustable in height. The track is MUCH better. That way you can adjust the height of the ring. I can put mine from the deck to 6 feet up. Pole should be horizontal and the clews of the spinnaker should be even in height when flying.

You need spinnaker sheets, these should be 3/8 line each 50 feet long.

You need spin sheet blocks as far aft as possible, I would mount these on the aft pulpit on a 250, down low.

You will need cockpit winches, one on each side to handle the spin sheets. I use my regular sheet winches but I believe a 250 doesn't even have cockpit winches.

I have self tailing winches but I have jam cleats also in the cockpit.

Don't kid yourself - you can not hold spinnaker sheets in hand in any wind over 5 knots.

Also, you need good sailing gloves.

I'll try to post some photos of my setup before the race.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 09/26/2007 : 18:33:46

you're awesome Jim....thanks!

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2007 : 22:28:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I wear my harness but don't clip in. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm not sure I see the benefit of a harness without the tether.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 09/27/2007 22:29:01

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 09:37:56

I wear an integrated harness/automatic inflating PFD. I have the tether at hand if needed.

Henk, bring the boat to San Diego for 2 months and I'll help you rig it.

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2007 : 12:22:22

Jim:

Thanks for the invite and offer to assist but... we're still on the boat, not even back in the house yet and already have the urge to take you up on your offer... Give us a few weeks (month) to settle things and we'll let you know.

I'll stay in touch Henk

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