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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Conversion to disc brakes

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2007 : 20:49:58

Gosh
I was actually able to add some smarts to this discussion.

I'm really glad you are trying to do the job right, and keep safety in mind.

Who knows, one of us may be in front of you when you put the brakes on

The next owner of my boat/trailer will inherit a really stout system.
4 wheel discs and torsion bar axles and aluminum frame with stainless bolts and keel guide and extension. Really nice trailer.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2007 : 22:38:32

Frank, don't even get me started on the use of bolts and U bolts that rust on an expensive galvanized trailer! Talk about penny wise and pound foolish. The people at Champion said all of the bolts can be swapped to stainless except the two bolts that connect the coupler to the trailer and the two bolts that connect the spring assembly to the trailer. Those bolts need to be #5 and stainless are #3. I will be upgrading the hardware to stainless as part of this trailer project. Also have decided to replace the six pedestal pads as the plywood has delamed and gotten soft, this on a six year old trailer. Will use marine grade plywood for the replacements. I'm hoping to find a material that is better than carpet for covering them, something like the vinyl used to protect dock edges. Ideas

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/05/2007 22:40:19

sdaly66
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2007 : 14:37:21

I know on mine, the brakes don't work well at all under sail. So i'm not sure upgrading to disc brakes is worth it. But the wheels do help when I go hard aground.

Hey, SOMEBODY had to say it.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2007 : 20:46:44

You are correct, the bolts on the coupler are SAE high strength steel. My torsion bar axles are bolted directly to the aluminum frame with 1/2" stainless bolts. No springs. Very stout.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2007 : 22:05:14

Hurray! The brake parts are in.

Here are photos of the vented stainless steel disk brakes and then the coupler and various brake line tube parts.

Here is the coupler installed. Easy to do but I will need to drill another hole in the frame for the third bolt. Also note that the mast-raising tower is in the way so I will have to shorten the Reverse Solenoid cover (large "U" shaped item in the top right of previous photo).

Here is a close-up of the Reverse Solenoid with Bleed Valve so I can back up hills without the brakes coming on. Champion had pre-tapped the main cylinder so this part of the job was also easy. The blue wire will go to the vehicle reverse light. The red disk is where the brake line tubing will connect.

The project has begun! Next up putting on the brakes themselves.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 06/16/2007 10:43:50

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/16/2007 : 13:03:32

Interesting... Tie-down has changed the design of the 66 coupler a bit. Mine doesn't have three mounting holes... only two. It also doesn't even have the extended bit of metal where the third hole is located. The flange just forward of that third hole extends the full length of the mount.

Updated... I see this particular unit is now being marketed as a 7,000 lb rated coupler... interesting.

Edited by - ClamBeach on 06/19/2007 20:00:48

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2007 : 09:06:45

This is my installation on my hitch. It's a control which is teed into the master and dumps back into it when the truck is put into reverse. I drilled and tapped the hole.
Thanks to this thread I now have a great system.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 12:24:21

Randy... good choice on going with the stainless. Cast iron rotators are only suitable on a vehicle driven almost daily where the rotator gets scrubbed preventing rust buildup.

I know a guy who only drove a pickup a few times a month and had a very tough time keeping brake pads because the rusting rotators ate the pads up.

Stainless is a must for disc brakes on a boat trailer. Drum brakes can get buy without stainless because the brake shoes retract far enough from the drum to avoid getting eaten by the rust.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2007 : 23:37:39

Well I was advised to go with e-coated rotors and not stainless since I do most of launching in fresh water. My brake person also said he couldn't turn stainless rotors and I would have to replace the rotor. There was also a concern that in long down grades the stainless could warp. So I will find out about the rotors soon. My brakes will be tested the first day on the trip North, only 750 miles to go.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2007 : 10:41:10

Even with the stainless steel I am not going to put the trailer in salt water. When we visit the San Juans we'll get lifted in. These particular steel rotors are vented so it will be interesting to see if the heat problem exists with them.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2007 : 22:51:44

We can compare notes about the trip, anyway the trailers. I will be traveling through Wednesday and will know a lot more about disc brakes.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2007 : 23:38:42

Well it has been a while since I last posted. I took some time off to do some crazy things – like go sailing!

Now back to the brakes. The coupler/actuator is installed, as is the bleeding solenoid valve. Next up are the actual brakes themselves. We start with the bare brake flange pictured here:

Next we install the caliper-mounting bracket on to the flange:

Then comes the rotor along with two bearings, washer, nut, etc and LOTS of grease. This photo is after some cleanup:

Then the caliper is mounted on the caliper-mounting bracket. It is starting to look like brakes!!

Here is another shot of the calipers:

This whole step took two hours. Simple bolt it together operation. One thing I like about this project is that hubs, rotors, calipers, discs, etc are no longer a mystery to me. In fact it is all quite simple when you see the parts.

That’s it for today. Next up is running the hydraulic lines.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 06/30/2007 : 20:55:58

We are now at the final stages of the drum-to-disc conversion. This step is installing the hydraulic lines. The main line is 16’ steel tubing. Here it is attached to the solenoid (for backing up) and then dipping into a hole I drilled in the trailer frame:

The tubing emerges a few feel back through a hole that was already there. Note the plastic clip that anchors the tube to the frame. It is in the center of the photo and is bolted to the frame. Sorry the picture is dark. There are about 6 of these clips along the main run:

This photo shows where the main line (top/right of photo) joins a “T”. One of the lines on the T has a stopper that will be removed if I add a second axle brake kit. The other line on the T has flex hose that goes to another T. The second T feeds both disc brakes. Note that the 16’ main line was just the right length. This tubing has special double flanges and should not be cut. If you order a line that is too long you must coil the tubing to adjust the length.

The line that crosses the axle is steel tubing. Champion recommend keeping the flex tubing to a minimum as it detracts from braking performance. Here is the connection of flex to the steel line crossing the axle and then the connection to the disc itself. Note the plastic ties that hold the steel tubing to the axle.

This step took three hours, mostly drilling holes in the trailer frame for the plastic clips and T brackets. Like the other kit steps, it was a simple 'bolt it together' operation. Champion has done a very nice job with this kit. I haven’t had to purchase any additional parts.

That’s it for today. Next up is bleeding the brake lines.

By the way, Jim Sweet (SWEETCRAFT) stopped by on his way to the San Juans. We compared brakes and he reported that his new discs performed very well coming over the mountains into Oregon. No overheating and improved braking over the old drums. The next morning over breakfast he gave the Admiral and me a lot of tips about the San Juans. It was great to meet a forum member!

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/01/2007 08:33:49

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2007 : 22:46:19

Well, after today and removing the old brakes and finding one full of grease I am sold on the disk brakes. I was wonder which might be worse, full of grease or full of rust. I will be calling Champion tomorrow.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2007 : 23:19:52

That looks just like my trailer brakes when I took them apart the first time... only my grease was blue.

>"By the way, Jim Sweet (SWEETCRAFT) stopped by on his way to the San Juans. We compared brakes and he reported that his new discs performed very well coming over the mountains into Oregon. No overheating and improved braking over the old drums. The next morning over breakfast he gave the Admiral and me a lot of tips about the San Juans. It was great to meet a forum member!"

Indeed... Jim is a real gentleman.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2007 : 23:54:07

Chris, those brakes look awful! You'll be glad you made the change to discs. The more I think about it the less sense drum brakes make on a boat trailer.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 07:10:31

Randy,
I agree. I figure it this way, you are either going to have heavy rust, or a blown seal that you can't inspect. I never realized that the seal was inside the drum. This really doesn't make any sense. By the way, what do you figure you had in the whole setup?

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 12:18:40

Chris, we went with the Kodiak stainless steel vented discs which were the most expensive ($300/wheel). Also got the TieDown 6600 coupler, reversing solenoid, and brake line kit. Total including shipping was about $1k. Finally knowing how brakes work and knowing that we have good brakes - priceless.

You could knock a few hundred off that by going with non-stainless brakes and still have a great system. Kodiak makes discs with an "E" coating that are very good. Jim Sweet used those and is very happy with them.

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 16:32:03

I had dinner with my brotherinlaw the other night, who retired from this Oregon state dept, ask him how I could have driven across his state and not gotten a ticket with my siily Jeep set up.
He said state has some of the best and updated laws of any of the states.
So he e-mailed this to me
3.) Do I have to have brakes on my trailer?
Oregon law requires that any vehicle or combination of vehicles weighing under 8,000 pounds must be able to stop within a travel lane in 25 feet from 20 miles per hour. If the vehicle or combination of vehicles weighs over 8,000 pounds, the vehicle must be able to stop within a travel lane in 35 feet from 20 miles per hour.
Check your owner’s manual of the tow vehicle to see what the manufacturer recommends. Most manufacturers recommend trailer brakes if the trailer and load weigh 1,000 pounds or more. (ORS 815.125

paulj

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2007 : 22:26:44

Paul, I figure my rig (GMC Yukon plus the boat and trailer) weighs around 12,000 lbs. I will probably add brakes to the second axle next year. I'm beginning to think that the issue is really more one of whether the brakes on your trailer actually work! After seeing the state of mine I believe that we drove from Iowa to Oregon last fall without functioning trailer brakes.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2007 : 08:06:06

Randy,
Well I got my brake parts ordered yesterday. Total cost was over $950. This included new E coating Kodiak disc brakes, New Dico 10 unit, new stainless lines, new hubs for the other axle, and three tubes of grease. I had to stay with the more expensive Dico 10 unit because my housing is welded to the frame. I will be cleaning up and painting the housing and installing all new parts. I feel that doing the project this way will last me over 10 years. Also, took another suggestion and bought Synthetic Brake Fluid last night at WalMart.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2007 : 11:01:28

Randy,
How did you handle the extra wire that needs to go to the backup light circuit on the solenoid. Is there a standard wiring configuration on the larger trailering plug that needs to be used.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2007 : 12:36:52

Chris, the Champion web site has an excellent wiring section including a color-coded diagram for trailer wiring. I taked about this with Jim Sweet (SWEETCRAFT) and have decided to go the route he did - not wire the backup solenoid to the plug. In other words keep that one wire seperate. That is because if you wire the truck and trailer plugs with the solenoid wire you basically rule our using other vehicles because no one else will have that setup. So I am going to run a seperate wire from the backup light, using an alligator clip, to the same location as the truck plug and connect seperately there. I'll run the blue solenoid wire along (with cable ties) the main trailer harness to the vehicle to keep it all contained. If I use someone elses vehicle, which I sometimes do, I will put the alligator clip onto their backup light.

So, if you look at the trailer connected to the truck you will see my regular 7 pin connector plus another seperate wire connecting the solenoid to the backup light.

I haven't completed the wiring yet, my new plug arrives today, but will post a photo soon.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2007 : 22:53:25

Finally the disc brake project is done! Like many projects, it expanded in scope, as you will see. Pardon the long post but this is the wrap-up.

First, here is a view of the completed wheels on the port side. The forward wheel has the disc brake.

I put on a new electrical connector. Note that I have chosen to have the backup solenoid wire as a separate component. I believe this setup, with an alligator clip, will simplify the use of a variety of tow vehicles. The clip will be attached to the tow vehicle backup lights.

I added some industrial step material on the coupler. This is the spot people step onto to use the trailer mast-raising tower ladder. I figured this would help footing and encourage them to step here and not on the brake fluid reservoir cap!

Here is the whole front area. Note that I have gone to the Equalizer hitch option that does not require the special pole frame mounting.

I added another jack at the port rear. This will help avoid the queezy feeling on steep ramps when I climb the swim ladder and the whole boat and trailer do a little teeter-totter thing.

Here is a shot of the full trailer. I made new bunks, re-carpeted everything, did some touch up paint, switched stainless steel hardware for rusty stuff, and added the 2” PVC pipe at the rear end to avoid damage to the wing keel when pulling the boat out of the water.

Next to the last step is to add the Association sticker.

And then the crowning touch – the Disc Brake sticker!

Well that’s it. I figure I put in about 25 hours of work over a one-month period. I learned a lot – much of it thanks to the members of this forum.

For those of us with trailers, the trailers are an important part of our sailing. Whether to act as winter storage or to take us to cruising grounds far away – a safe and reliable trailer is essential. And, I learned, it is not that hard to make your trailer ship-shape.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/15/2007 23:00:50

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2007 : 08:33:03

Randy,
It looks great.I will post my final results after next week. Of course, this will be the first in a two part trailer rehab. This time it is brakes, lights and bearings. Next it will be painting, Tires, rollers and keel guide. I wonder if anyone who has a swing keel has a keel guide like you have for your wing keel and how it works?

Edited by - on

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