Association Forum - Mast Raising

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Mast Raising - Web Strapping

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

John Hill
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
25 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/19/2007 : 17:55:36

I haven't found anything that resembles the "web strapping" mentioned in the manual that is used to raise the mast. I'm leaning toward a short rubber tie down and maybe a snap hook, with the rest of the set up per manual.

Has anyone else moved away from the factory spec regarding this piece of the mast raising system?

John Hill

C250 WK #516
Raymore, Mo

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2007 : 17:57:39

John, There a lot of previous post's on this subject located in the archives, just take your pick..

Edited by - on

Mike013
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
64 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2007 : 18:29:12

John,

I was able to order the strap, along with the baby shrouds and the length of line described in the manual, from Catalina Yachts. The strap is very strong and has one section that makes contact with the mast and a separate strap for attaching to the hoist line. If possible, go with the kit from Catalina.

Edited by - on

John Hill
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2007 : 19:58:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bear
 John, There a lot of previous post's on this subject located in the archives, just take your pick..
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I must be missing something or looking in the wrong place. I've done searches on webbing strap and mast raising but not found anything specific to the webbing strap or changes that others have done. Is there an archive section I'm missing?

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2007 : 20:33:39

John, we never had the strap, but raise the mast every trip.
We have the CDI furler installed, so the jib halyard is unused. To raise the mast we run the trailer winch strap up through the mast raising extension and over the top roller, then attach the hook to a bowline in the end of the jib halyard. Take up the slack and secure the halyard to the mast cleat (really secure) and then winch the mast up. The halyard reaches to the top of th mast.

Paul.

Edited by - on

John Hill
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2007 : 21:14:08

Thanks Paul, that sounds like that might do the job.

Edited by - on

Mike013
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
64 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2007 : 23:17:39

Paul,

It sounds like the weight of the mast is passed directly to the mast cleat. That is a lot of weight for that cleat to support. The webbing strap is double reinforced nylon and the weight of the mast is passed directly to the mast raising support on the trailer.

This might be a safety issue

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 06:30:08

The breaking strength of the 5/16 halyard could be another safety issue. It probably has a tensile strength in the 3000 pound range when new and in perfect shape, BUT the safe working load is about 1/10 of that in non-citical use, and significantly less in this situation. It's probably a better idea to use the Catalina supplied heavy duty strapping or something with a similar working load. I'm using a piece of 9/16 inch double braided line between the mast strap and trailer strap hook. The safe working load of this combination must be 5 times that of the halyard.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 08:23:45

Good points guys. When we purchased JD (new) the dealer showed us that method of raising the mast (he owns a C250 WB too). Did you mean "1/10 of that in critical use"?

Thinking more about it, the process we use must also exert a high load on the masthead sheave.

Does anyone have a pic or dimensions of the original webbing strap?

Not having the strap, we could simply make the bowline with the line around the mast, (one less thing to find when pre-staging).

The manual shows a piece of dacron line as the interface between the winch strap and the webbing strap. Scaled from the drawing, I would guess it's about 10' long.
Paul.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:10:11

Paul and John,

The factory forgot to send the mast raising kit when I bought my boat. We used a length of 3/8" line with bowlines at each end. Pass the line around the mast, then run one end through the loop of the other bowline, you can use it repeatedly without retying the knots all the time. Later, the kit arrived, and now I use the strap.

Doing this puts the force near the mid point of the mast which is what the whole rig is designed for, and make me feel more comfortable than pulling from the top of the mast, although if Paul says it works, heck, you can't argue with success. Paul has launched and recovered his boat many more times than I have.

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:11:17

Paul -

Other than the spelling error, it means exactly what it says. According to the companies that make rope, the safe working load of a line is it's tensile strength divided by a factor of from 5 to 12 for non-critical applications, and by 15 or greater for critical ones. Raising a mast has to fall in the latter class. The range is based on quality of new (and perfect) rope - and the lower numbers apply to the high tech stuff out of the box. I'm assuming that Sta-set, which is the most popular and probably the equivalent of what most of us use, would be around 200 to 250 pounds of working load for a 5/16 double braided 3,000 pound tensile line. Even if you assume that it's not-critical (I'd hate to be under the stick when the line snaps!), you're still talking about 300 pounds "safely". The line will probably take a lot more, but its a little too close to the "safe working load" for my comfort. I think you need 3/8 or better line to do something like this.

The 2 inch heavy trailer web strap must be rated (tensile, not safe load) for at least 10,000 pounds; and the Catalina double stitched and heavily reinforced 1 inch web similar. I use about 8 feet of 9/16 line to connect the mast loop to the trailer strap hook.

I can take a photo of the Catalina strap when I pull the boat out of the lift in a day or two, but I don't have any way to post it to this site.

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:40:56

It would be interesting to put a strain guage on the line during mast raising. We raised my mast once without the trailer and winch, and from being one of the two guys who pushed the mast up, I would doubt the strain on the line is much over the working load of 3/8" line... But maybe I am stronger than I think I am... (ya, right).

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 13:01:00

I'm probably closer to CaptRon400 when it comes to the strain on the line.
When the mast is in the stern cradle, the leverage is really low. So at that point it is certainly the highest load on the line. The force exerted by the winch is transferred to an almost horiztonal force at the mast head.

I'm still working on my 'on the water' raising system using the whisker pole as the lever (it's a 2" dia 7' long pole when fully retracted). The leverage that will provide will dramatically drop the load on the line to raise the mast. (Dare I say it: it will function similar to the H25 mast raising design)

Any way, back to John Hill: although we have only launched about 22 times in the past 24 months, we have raised the mast nearer to 30 times: a couple of driveway sailing trips, and several times we had to lower the mast because something was at the top which should have been at the bottom (halyards).

Now we take a few extra seconds to check that all is clear and that all lines are where they should be.

When I re-read the instructions in the manual, it states that the backstay should be connected prior to raising the mast (never done that) but it also states that "If the backstay was not connected, do so at this time (at transom)". With the backstay disconnected it's easy to connect the jib stau )furler) to the bow strap.

Although I feel very confident in raising the mast using the jib halyard, if the admiral reads this, then we'll have a webbing strap before the B.E.E.R. Cruise, so I might as well just go get one. (hence the request for pics)

Paul

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 13:52:42

I think 3/8 inch line is OK to do this kind of stuff, but isn't the jib halyard 5/16? And you're right about the amount of force needed when the mast is almost horizontal. It's a vector (remember physics?) and not that much of it is being applied to the vertical component at this angle, hence there will be a much greater load on the halyard or trailer strap then. If someone is helping to raise the stick by hand while another cranks, then it may keep it within safety limits. But it could be even safer if you use ropes or web straps which can support these loads.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 14:14:22

Think I'll do a driveway run using a line around the mast. As mentioned earlier, the biggest challange might be getting the attachment of the jib stay in place. When using the jib halyard, it must bend the mast a bit, thus making the attachment easy. Will take pics.

(My new spinny should arrive this week, that'll be a great excuse to put the stick up! - Honey, come and check this out, see how I raised the mast using the webbing strap... oh, the big green sail, cute isn't it. But it's a lot safer raising the mast this way!

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 05/20/2007 14:17:40

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 15:04:01

I have raised our mast with both methods, the Catalina kit and with the jib halyard. The Catalina kit, with the collar and baby stays, is better. Combined with the C250 trailer it is an awesome package. Get the kit.

Edited by - on

Jarrett Anderson
1st Mate

Members Avatar

61 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 20:03:39

I had the mast on my old boat crash onto the deck, utilizing the buddy system refereed to on this tread. It ripped the mast step bolts through the reinforced fiber glass deck, and bent the mast and other things. I was on the deck and luckily got out of the way.

I am a huge proponent of the mast raising system, with the mini spreaders.

At about 45 degrees most of the masts weight is delivered or shall we say driven into the mast' step not the raising system. Some of it is absorbed by the stays. Below 45 degrees it is all on what ever system you have in place. The load will exceed the "300lbs"(I don't know what the mast weighs, but lets say that the mast weighs 300lbs). So the Mast 300lbs + the weight of the force pulling the mast up = more than 600 lbs on your system.

The webbing provided by Catalina distributes the weigh of the pulling force on three points, at the spreaders at the mast head on the block, and at the mast cleat via the jib halyard. The webbing is engineered to hold the weight. The line that came with my system is at least 1/2" with double braid construction, breaking strength between 10,000 and 13,000 lbs. Make sure your knot will hold the load, bowline or figure 8 on a bight. The webbing on the wench 10,000 lbs. This is all built in for safety.

I forget how much I spent for the system, but it was well worth every cent.

Jarrett _/)

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 21:31:37

Just love having those wenches around to help raise the mast

Paul

Edited by - on

John Hill
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2007 : 09:48:37

Well I ordered a webbing strap this morning. If they are able to put one together in time to overnight and arrive by Thursday I'll have it for this Friday's inaugural splash. If it doesn't arrive by then I'll get creative

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2007 : 12:31:34

the owners manual at has a page of instructions on the use of the strap

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.