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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Racing a 250

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/17/2007 : 19:42:42

Just back from watching the Congressional Cup races here in Long Beach, CA; match races with Catalina 37's sponsored by Acura.
Never been a racer but I think I've caught the bug. Apart from the standard racing SOP's, is there anything particularly unique about racing a 250, and what is our standard PHRF rating? Thanks, and watch my smoke

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 07:36:56

You'll need to get a PHRF certificate from your local PHRF group. There are very very very few 250's that have been rated so when you get the number, let us know what it is.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 11:24:09

Duane, I assume that's because the 250 is not a very efficient boat for racing . I Googled for info and came up with two numbers from the East Coast: 228 and 198. I'm not interested in "serious" racing, just informal fun racing, i.e. "beer can" stuff.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 14:29:02

Frank, I am in Newport. Lets race. I will even bring the beer cans!

Edited by - on

CaptRon400
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 14:33:19

Frank -

Efficiency has absolutly nothing to do with it. They would rate a brick with sails if someone made it and wanted to race it. In general, most Catalina owners are not interested in racing, and because of that, numbers (and boats that do it) are hard to find. If you really want to do it, apply to your regional PHRF association for a number. They will probably give you a provisional rating until they can see what a 250 can do. Note that my 400 has had a provisional rating in 3 different regions for 10 years - I accidently move it before they cast it in stone. Them it's up to you to find a "friendly" beer can race. Thats almost as rare as finding another Catalina in the race.

By the way, I have not raced my 250 down here in SW Florida - no reliable crew. They won't let you race single-handed. But I've tagged along on several starts and the boat can do pretty good for a 25 footer in the approx 200 to 240 PHRF area. I've "started" a minute or so behind the PHRF B non-spinnaker pack and I can stay or even catch them. We're heading back north soon, so maybe next year down here. I'm towing it north, but I prefer to race the 400 up on the Jersey shore (when I have crew). It's offshore and the big 23,000 pound 400 really shines out there.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 16:44:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Frank, I am in Newport. Lets race. I will even bring the beer cans!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve, I'm in Long Beach (Shoreline Marina). I'm the Cruise-Out Chairman for the Navy Yacht Club Long Beach. We have a cruise to the Bahia Corinthian Yacht Club September 21-23. Let's touch base then...and have a race!

Or in my neck o' the woods if you ever get up this way. A fun race, not grim jaw one, okay?

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 17:44:28

Frank,

I raced my C250WK all last year, and eight times so far this year. My local PHRF rating is 263 (no spinnaker) which I think is wrong, but I'll take it.

The boat points VERY well against anything remotely in it's class. In light air, you will kick butt.

Downwind I have no real basis for comparison because all the racing boats around here seem to have spinakers, and besides, I always screw up the start and end up behind the fleet. But it certain is in the same relm as a C25 in winds to 15 knots. Above that the C25 is stiffer and has an advantage I think...

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 18:58:44

"In light air, you will kick butt."
Absolutely agree; the 250 is definitely a light air boat. We've actually passed 27'ns and 30's, but when the wind picks up, they pick up and pass us. But then their foresails are larger than our 110's.

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 20:27:06

Frank, Sept is a long way off but ok. Dont have a spinaker like you. There is another c250 across from me. Dont know him yet but maybe a 3some. I am all in for a fun time only. I am ok meeting halfway too.
Steve

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 23:24:21

No, I don't have a spinnaker either.
Are you going to the Catalina Rendezvous July 13-15 at Two Harbors? I'll be there with my crew, Bob Terpening, who owns a 250 in Dana Point almost identical to mine. We'll probably go over on the 12th to secure a mooring. The cost is 85 bucks per person but I'm told it's well worth the dough: lots of food and booze, raffle prizes, etc. Registration is on www.catalinayachts.com

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2007 : 23:32:19

I have a 135. I am quite happy with how the boat performs going to weather in up to about 15 knots, and frankly, we have not had wind above that very often.

I have read and commented on your opinion that the 250 is a "light air boat" before, and I think you overstate it. If I were in Puget Sound in 20 knots *racing*, I would rather be in a C25. But at 15 knots, I'd rather be in my C250. And for cruising I have been happy in all the winds I have experienced in it, which is up to 20, where I had to reef my main and roll in the jib some. I think others have said that 25 knots is about the most you will enjoy in a C250, and that sounds right to me, but having never seen it yet, I can't say.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2007 : 10:56:05

Kevin - how in heck did you get a 263 rating? Most places around the country rate them 228 - 231. The real problem with the 250 is that there are not enough of them racing in different venues to gain some rating experience.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 07:29:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 Kevin - how in heck did you get a 263 rating? Most places around the country rate them 228 - 231. The real problem with the 250 is that there are not enough of them racing in different venues to gain some rating experience.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was just going to post this! My rating is 228 which seems to be the most common rating on the internet. WK, 135 jib (furler), no spinnaker. Hold on to that rating and even complain about it (so they leave it alone)! I finished 1st last year in our group. Now they are starting me after some will be rounding the first marker!

Edited by - on

kevinmac
Admiral

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USA
732 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2007 : 12:17:45

I just send the handicapper all the dimensions (got 'em from Catalina) and that is what he came back with.

Just finished a 13 mile race yesterday (or should I say didn't finish, the wind was absent the last 1/2 mile to the only mark, and we (and 3 other boats) couldn't get there). The race was seven hours of downwind upcurrent in very light wind, then 45 minutes of beating back. The current was only 1.5 knots, but the wind increased all the way back.

I gotta get a kite. I am tired of this happening, it seems that racing in this part of the Columbia just requires one.

Major buckage required. Gritting teeth and going to sailmaker...

So I'll get rerated, and this time with a different and possibly more careful handicapper. I'll let you know what the new rating is...

Kevin

Edited by - on

sailorman
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2007 : 09:37:07

All you wk guys discuss racing while us wb guys are lucky to outrace the ducks. Does anybody actually race a wb? We were out on Lake Lanier Sunday in light air,and a 250 wk sail #341 passed us several times during the day. At one point I was "chasing" the boat; made sure my sails were the same,etc. and he just sailed away at almost 1.5 times my speed. How embarrassing. Even the admiral was concerned. We did rescue a power boat that had run out of gas, so our ego is intact.

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2007 : 17:32:17

I'll race anything on the lake whether the other boat knows
it or not. I know my WB is not the fastest but I have caught a few sailboats and now with an IDA rudder it might get a little better. Hope to sail tomorrow for the first time this season.....

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2007 : 17:42:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sailorman
 ...We were out on Lake Lanier Sunday in light air,and a 250 wk sail #341 passed us several times during the day. At one point I was "chasing" the boat; made sure my sails were the same,etc. and he just sailed away at almost 1.5 times my speed...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Did he by chance have a bigger headsail (the 135 that has been available on the WK but not the WB)? In light air, that will make a big difference. It's also possible it was a tall rig...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 05/21/2007 17:45:37

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2007 : 20:28:19

Ed,
It could have been me you saw Sunday. I was on the lake and passed by you a few times. Dave got it right, its the tall rig that really makes a difference. That extra 3 feet of sail might not sound like much, but on light air days like Sunday she will fly. On the flip side had the wind been strong, I might have been chasing you.

Edited by - on

sailorman
1st Mate

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USA
69 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2007 : 22:46:40

Tom, I didn't think it was your boat, I remembered your sail number wrong. The boat does sail well in heavier winds, but they are few and far between. Oh well,I was just venting. Tall rig huh!? Maybe an asymmetric would work.

Edited by - on

Jack Schafer
Navigator

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USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2007 : 20:27:14

I race every week with my WB. 15 knot winds are the best,heeled over about 25 degrees.Light winds downwind you might as well go home. I do fly the drifter which helps.PHRF 225

Jack Schafer
2nd Wind

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