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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Racing Forum

proper course

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crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/19/2007 : 17:15:37

I don't race my own boat, yet, but have crewed a few times for others. Lately there has been a big discussion of "proper course." Does somebody have a clear, concise, simple definition? I admit to being confused a little.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2007 : 18:25:49

The rulebook and casebook definition of proper course is : a course a boat would sail to finish in as soon as possiblein the absence of the other boats referr to in the rule using the term. A boat has no proper course before her starting signal.

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hwy61sail
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2007 : 06:46:55

The definition is concise and simple, "A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in the absence of the other boats".

Interpretation, this is the rub... There is one aspect of the definition that is quite clear "absence of the other boats". This eliminates arguments based on boat traffic. Note that the definition does not refer to the "shortest" course. In light air, down winds are an exercise in jybing from one reach to another. Boat speed compensates for the added distance sailed. Add to the mix a puffy day and you can justify altering course to set yourself up for the next puff. Then there is current, wave action ... Analysis paralysis.. And I have not touched on different boat types and how sailing characteristics differ!

As the factors increase opinions differ.. who is right?

Protest.. Honestly, if your competitor is pushing you around on the race course claiming rights due to "proper course" and you disagree, file a protest. Make them justify their actions. Keep in mind that you will also have to present facts in the protest hearing.

Of course the best way to enter into these discussions is to sail fast, finish first and offer opinions after the race

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2007 : 08:25:40

I'm not an advocate of protests. They bring out the worst in sailors. They often come down to one boat's word against the other, with no independent witnesses to break the deadlock. In local club racing, race committees often consist of people quickly gathered together with only a vague understanding of the rules, and their decisions are dubious at best. I don't know any good racing sailors who don't avoid protests like the plague. I try to settle such disputes on the race course, during the race, and my personal policy is to only protest other boats if they hit my boat or do something dangerous. In most cases you can settle them on the race course by citing the applicable rule. If the other guy isn't sure of his rights, he'll usually back off. If somebody tries to "luff me all the way to China," I can usually persuade them to stop by reminding them that this isn't just a race between the two of us. While he's messing with me, the whole fleet is gaining on both of us. Most racers understand that logic. If someone gets angry during a race, I'll remind him that "We're all friends here." In an ambiguous situation, when I'm not absolutely certain that I'm right or that I can prove it, I'd much rather take an undeserved voluntary penalty than get involved in a protest. If you take a voluntary penalty, you can still win the race, or finish second or third. If you're protested and get disqualified, it will not only be disastrous in that race, but, if you're racing in a competitive, multi-race regatta, it virtually guarantees that you won't win the regatta. Wouldn't it be awful to bring your boat to our nationals, and be in the lead after three races, and then lose a protest and go home without a trophy! Wouldn't it be smarter to take a voluntary, undeserved penalty and finish that race in second or third place, and still be in the running for the national championship?

The bottom line, as I see it, is that we should be able to go home after the race and say, "Boy, that was fun! I can't wait to do it again." Usually, a protest will prevent one or both of the participants from saying that. Keep it in perspective. It's just a boat race.

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2007 : 09:53:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 I'm not an advocate of protests... "Boy, that was fun! I can't wait to do it again." Usually, a protest will prevent one or both of the participants from saying that. Keep it in perspective. It's just a boat race.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Couldn't agree more!

Post-race is for a drink of choice and second-guessing the days decisions. Resolve it on the water, and keep the paperwork to scoring races, not hearing protests.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2007 : 13:27:46

Our club races consist of slow, fast, and faster boats. The only real opportunity for close sailing where a foul may occur is at the start, possibley at the 1st mark.

Generally at the start the most common foul is an early start or right of way issue. More often than not our untrained but reasonably competant committee crew of 1 or 2 persons can handle the situation. At the first mark, if you want to call a foul you are obliged to work it out between skippers on the water. In 17 years of racing my boat I've had to sail two penalties - a 360 and a 720. Both were during our club championship where senstivities are a little more heightened. Generally I try to avoid circumstances where I might be involved in a foul situation by giving way.

The starts, as they are in most club racing, are close and the most exciting part of the race. Thereafter its sail as fast as you can and hope you win on your handicap. Protest procedures are part of the notice of race but are a non issue throughtout the season and havve never been implimented.

Edited by - aeckhart on 04/20/2007 13:31:54

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2007 : 08:23:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by SailCO26
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 I'm not an advocate of protests... "Boy, that was fun! I can't wait to do it again." Usually, a protest will prevent one or both of the participants from saying that. Keep it in perspective. It's just a boat race.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Couldn't agree more!

Post-race is for a drink of choice and second-guessing the days decisions. Resolve it on the water, and keep the paperwork to scoring races, not hearing protests.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Protests suck, but sometimes are inevitable. Most of my time dealing with them have been big events. 8 times in the protest room out of all of the regattas and races I've done is a pretty good ratio, I think. For most of the club stuff we try to "settle it out of court"

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esailor
Navigator

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USA
118 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2007 : 14:39:22

I hate protests, in 30 plus years of racing I have filed one and won it. Settle them on the water. Sail conservativly and consistantly you'll be fine. Know your rules they are easier now than they were before the simplification.

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