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Reponse to Sailing World PHRF-ection Article

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saribella
Captain

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USA
286 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/07/2007 : 21:13:40

This morning my wife and I braved the cold and snow (again) to drive 17 miles north to Grand Haven make it to our favorite Saturday morning breakfast stop. I could go on and on about my contempt for mother-nature in the midst of this unseasonal weather, but will abstain. While waiting to be seated we went to the bookstore next door where I ditched my wife at the threshold to promptly seek out my monthly copy of Sailing World. Predictably the cover had captions for KWRW, Laser sailing, and a review of the Beneteau F10R.

The way I read my copy of Sailing World is to first look over the cover, and then immediately turn to the contents page. There at the top of the tech review column, as noted on page "42/ used boats" read the caption, "Looking for a PHRF boat that won't break the bank? Check out these four gems." Now, some of you know how I think, and I am also aware of the fact that I am somewhat of an intense individual that has a propensity to draw quick conclusions with complete and unbridled optimism; sometimes much to the chagrin of my wife, but she says that I have been getting better with age. Could it be that the Capri 25 might be among the four "gems" described? My hopes heightened as I hurriedly flipped to page 42. There it was in bold type, "Finding PHRF-ection For 25K or Less," with a photo of a Pearson Flyer under the first page. One down no Capri, and Page 43 had an advertisement for Sydney Yachts. I cannot take this waiting any longer.

On Page 44 there it was the Pearson Flyer, and the C&C Mark 27 V? To say the least I am not a huge fan of C&C, but especially the late 70's/early 80's models; and to top it all off the price range per the article was between $18,000 to $30,000, and $28,000 to $32,000 as listed on a used boat website in Canada. Did not the title of this article indicate PHRF boats for under $25K? I looked strongly at 1979 C&C 25 before I purchased my Capri and was not impressed with its dilapidated yet cared for state, but sailed on a few others and was pleased. I do not know how a boat that per the article is 26.5' LOA, with an LWL of 9'-3" (actually 23'), a beam of 11'-1" (actually 9'-3"), a draft of 4'-10", weighs 4,420 lbs, and rates a 172-183 is very competitive. I think that when one considers the age, construction, and overall specifications that the C&C 27 Mark V seems rather prohibitive as a PHRF racer. No matter, on to the next page, and two possibilities left.

Page 45 was an advertisement for Stagg Yachts, and then I flipped to page 46. Ok, next was a Leif Bailey B-25, believable. However, Scot Tempesta might disagree. Unfortunately, the last boat was not the Capri 25, damn. Instead it was the Martin 242 ($11,000-$18,000). Now I am neither rocket scientist, a naval architect, nor a professional sailor, but I think that there are more cost effective competitive PHRF racers other than a Martin 242. Other than the J/24, for a comparative fractional rig there is the Kirby 25’s ($6,000-$12,000), and the ultimate J/24 killer the S2 7.9 ($9,000-$21,000). To continue there is the Merit 25 ($9,000-$13,000), and the Olson 25 ($10,000-$18,000).

However, to present a true diamond in the ruff, and you can call me biased, one cannot overlook at the Capri 25 ($4,000-$13,000). I purchased hull #355 for $4,100 including dual-axle trailer, 9.8 Mercury outboard, intact rigging, usable (but ugly) sails, decent interior, cushions, fantastic structural integrity, and no damage. The deals are out there for any of the aforementioned boats, but seem to be more common with the Capri 25. The thing that sets the Capri 25 apart from the Martin 242, other than being a masthead rig, all one has to do is look to overall construction; specifically the use of core-mat sandwich construction of the Capri 25 that was rather advanced for the day. The presentation of the Martin 242 in the Sailing World article even states that owners have reported rot in the core on the foredeck (yikes), and down the gunwales on older boats.

It can be said that when someone is truly interested in racing PHRF the Capri 25 is the way to go for the biggest bang for the buck. With some improvements the Capri 25 has the absolute potential to become a truly competitive PHRF racer that is not only cost effective & economical, but easy to sail to its average rating of 171-174. Even though the Capri 25 never went the way of being an ODR, even though that was the intent, there is still one “fleet” of thirty boats on Lake Minnetonka, MN that races OD as well as PHRF. The Capri 25 is finally seeing substantial interest with the class adoption by the Catalina 25/250 International Association ( http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org ) that is enjoying an ever increasing Capri membership, support by Catalina Yachts, and even support from a few sail-makers such as Elliot-Pattison, North, Haarstick, etc. The very first Capri 25 sanctioned class nationals will also be held in 2008. The Capri 25 is giving every indication that we have yet to see its golden era in either PHRF or OD. One only has to look as far as the Capri 25 for a truly economical and effective PHRF racer.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2007 : 23:26:09

Three cheers! I've been on one and was favorably impressed!

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2007 : 00:32:18

Matt, you need to send this into Sailing World.

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saribella
Captain

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USA
286 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2007 : 11:30:20

I edited it a little and sent it to Tony Bessinger of Sailing World last night with a plea for a little coverage. I will forward what I actually sent to you, FH, & DW. Happy Easter Everyone!!!

Edited by - saribella on 04/08/2007 11:31:10

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2007 : 15:33:31

Don't know much about the PHRF ratings and such, but when I was racing on a friend's S2-7.9 (I was just the foredeck grunt), the capri 25 in the fleet was our toughest competition and the "one" we had to beat.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2007 : 17:44:41

I used to race on a Capri 25 when I lived in Tumwater. When we first started out we were usually in the back of the pack, but that wasn't due to the boat, it was our lack of experience (and having two captains didn't help). After a number of races and recruiting an experienced tactician, all of a sudden we were vying for seconds and thirds in our class. The Capri is definitely a nice little racer.

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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2007 : 19:20:35

I have never been on another displacment sailboat that at 20 knots downwind thows a wake behind the boat. I still get excited when I think back on that race. The really funny thing was that the boat was in total control, and at this speed everything got quiet except for the water rushing by the hull.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2007 : 19:40:53

While I understand your point I think they were looking at boats that had a larger production run and a boat that was designed as a PHRF boat regardless of current utilization. Otherwise Evelyn 32, Olson 30 and others would have been at the top of the list as well. There just aren't that many out there (relatively speaking)

Great job nonetheless hopefully some added press will come of this.

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saribella
Captain

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USA
286 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2007 : 23:24:06

Not really, I beleive the article stated that one of the boats listed only had a run of 300-400 boats; which would be about the same as the Capri 25.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 06:02:40

Still, the Capri 25 much like the J-24 is considered one design, I would hold that it never even hit their radar.

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John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 11:54:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 I used to race on a Capri 25 when I lived in Tumwater.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wouldn't have, by chance, been "Precocious"?

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2007 : 17:26:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by saribella
Other than the J/24, for a comparative fractional rig there is the Kirby 25’s ($6,000-$12,000), and the ultimate J/24 killer the S2 7.9 ($9,000-$21,000). To continue there is the Merit 25 ($9,000-$13,000), and the Olson 25 ($10,000-$18,000). <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'd add the Wavelength 24 to that list.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...and even support from a few sail-makers such as Elliot-Pattison, North, Haarstick, etc. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've seen where EP has definitely supported the CP25, and even Haarstick. Speaking as a presently-staunch North person, I am seriously considering converting to EP as I've not seen evidence of North supporting this design. Can someone please show me otherwise?

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millermg
Navigator

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159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 00:19:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Mason
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 I used to race on a Capri 25 when I lived in Tumwater.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wouldn't have, by chance, been "Precocious"?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Was this the Aqua-colored Precocious that sailed South Sound Sailing Society? Wasn't that sailed by some guys from South Bay Copy and Blueprint? (now Doops) What ever happened to that boat?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 08:34:28

We just got a Capri 30 at our club and I am guessing it will be a terrible PHRF boat; I think it will be very hard to sail to its numbers. Do Capri 25s outsail their numbers? It seems like most ODs have pretty low numbers and people who sail them PHRF instead of OD usually do not have the "program" in place to sail them to their numbers.

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SailCO26
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 10:14:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 We just got a Capri 30 at our club and I am guessing it will be a terrible PHRF boat<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Why? Not to sound like an SA'er, but what's it rate? 117-ish? And what's the competition? What's the local wx like?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do Capri 25s outsail their numbers? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
With reasonable sails and 50% of the crew experienced and 50% green, we're very competitive in our fleet at 173 (155% + spin) against J/22s, J/24s, S20s, S525, Merit 25s, U-20s, and the occasional WL24. Some serious racers, some marshmallows. There used to be a few tri's, but they're gone for this year.

Never had a chance to measure to see where we are compared to the actual numbers, but the rating fits with the competition so I'd have to say we're pretty close.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It seems like most ODs have pretty low numbers and people who sail them PHRF instead of OD usually do not have the "program" in place to sail them to their numbers.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think you're talking about the newer sport-boats here when you say "ODs" (you can OD race ANY boat, all you need is a fleet and rules), but ANY boat needs a respectable crew to "sail to her numbers". We OD Capri 22's (and probably J/22s this year), and another local lake OD's S20s and U20s. Personally, I think the only reason someone would sail PHRF instead of OD is because the OD fleet isnt there. You gotta sail fast to win, whether you're OD or PHRF.

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saribella
Captain

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USA
286 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 13:04:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...and even support from a few sail-makers such as Elliot-Pattison, North, Haarstick, etc. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've seen where EP has definitely supported the CP25, and even Haarstick. Speaking as a presently-staunch North person, I am seriously considering converting to EP as I've not seen evidence of North supporting this design. Can someone please show me otherwise?

[/quote]

http://www.northsailsod.com/class/capri25/capri25.html of course there is a distinct difference between offering a one design sail and support........

Edited by - saribella on 04/11/2007 13:09:29

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2007 : 14:18:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by millermg
Was this the Aqua-colored Precocious that sailed South Sound Sailing Society? Wasn't that sailed by some guys from South Bay Copy and Blueprint? (now Doops) What ever happened to that boat?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yup.

Not sure of that connection.

Was told once but it's been a while since I've raced and I don't remember exactly.

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SailCO26
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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2007 : 08:23:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by saribella
http://www.northsailsod.com/class/capri25/capri25.html of course there is a distinct difference between offering a one design sail and support........<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yeah, I saw that back when I was first looking at the CP25. If you click on the "Tuning Tip" link, you get a Q&A about tweakers. My boat was purchased from a prior employee of a North loft, and the main is really sweet - but it's also very flat so none of the other tuning guides will work, and I've never found a NS guide for the CP25.

Like you said, BIG dif between making a sail and supporting the fleet.

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