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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

When to reef question:

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/02/2006 : 12:37:29

In order to maintain a maximum heel of 15 degrees on either tack, I find I have to reef both main and jib in winds 15 knots, gusting to 20. What happens to your performance when heeling in excess of 15 degrees? Or perhaps am I being too cautious? When my "first mate" is aboard I have to maintain a heel of no more than 10 degrees regardless the strength of the wind.

Isn't the 250 basically a light to moderate wind boat; very "tender" above 15 to 20 knots?

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - AADIVER on 11/02/2006 15:54:25

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2006 : 13:15:49

Frank,

On the average sailboat 20 degrees is the point where wetted surface, the amount of hull in the water, begins to create drag and slow the boat down. Some of our C25 owners like more hull in the water, but in my opinion, it's a personal "thrill" preference rather than a practical matter of speed.

Heeling on the race course is altogether different than when day sailing with the wife. I've confessed this here before that, very early on in my sailing life and out of ignorance, I drove my wife from the sport by overheeling the boat with too much sail in high wind. I've regretted that early experience for 17 years. Now she'll only set foot on the boat when she knows there will be no heeling at all or we are going to motor somewhere. You have to feel safe on the boat in order to enjoy the boat. Excessive healing does not impart a sense of safety, particularly in wifes.

So, if you are racing, reef when excessive heeling jeapordizes boat control and thus speed. When day sailing, reef when heeling jeapordizes your relationship with your sailing partner.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2006 : 14:49:04

To answer the question you asked in the subject...when you say to yourself..."I wonder if I should reef?" That's when you should do it, when it first enters your mind.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2006 : 15:03:21

The zone for max speed while heeling for our boats is 12-17 degrees.
My first mate accepted heeling past 17 degrees after talking to 'experts' other than me. As much as she believed me and trusted me, she wanted to hear it from someone else.

Nothing wrong with reefing first and questioning yourself later wether or not it was necesary. When we were new to our boat, we reefed almost everytime out. Now we reef less frequently because we both are confident in our boat handling skills.

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2006 : 12:58:44

We found that we always had to reef our main & jib on our '97 C250wk. "Blown Away" liked being at 10-15 degrees. Over 15 degrees it was very uncomfortable & actually slower.

Bert's right - the time to reef is when you ask yourself the question

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2006 : 14:23:30

I agree with all that has been said. When in doubt reef. It is easier to take the reef out when sailing than to put it in. Recently, we got caught out in 20 -25 knots without a reef and had only ourselves to blame. When we left the slip it was very calm but the forecast was right and we were wrong.

One other thing I'd mention is originally our boat had single line reefing. I change it to a reefing horn on the tack. The clew is pulled in from the cockpit with the original single reefing line. This arrangement works much better.

Edited by - on

paulb
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 09:26:23

I have learned to reef when the wind gets to around 15 mph after a few "round ups" after pushing for more speed. It did not help and exceeded the 15 degree limit imposed by crew. I use a 135 Genoa and have reversed the reefing system to allow single handed usage from the cockpit.

I have a question: Has anyone out there experienced a true "knock down" in their 250WB? Are they self righting after a knock down? I don't plan on having one, but knowing what would happen would be nice to know.

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2006 : 15:38:43

"One other thing I'd mention is originally our boat had single line reefing. I change it to a reefing horn on the tack. The clew is pulled in from the cockpit with the original single reefing line."

Steve, would you be more specific about you do this; can't vizualize how you can hook the tack cringle into a horn from the cockpit and at the same time secure the clew. Thanks.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2006 : 07:04:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by paulb
 
I have a question: Has anyone out there experienced a true "knock down" in their 250WB? Are they self righting after a knock down? I don't plan on having one, but knowing what would happen would be nice to know.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My crew and myself experienced the closest thing to a knockdown just after finishing a race in about a 18 knot wind. I have a WK 250. We were following a boat with her on the starboard side. Heeled quite a bit (30 degrees) into the wind. The boat in front suddenly rounded up in what we think now was a 30 knot gust. She rounded up right across my bow forcing me to push the tiller away quickly and force myself into a roundup. That action knocked us completely over, sail in water and almost launching my crew into the water. We stopped and popped up immediately. It happened so fast that our crew and the other boats crew where all laughing. On the other hand, myself and the other helmsman where just looking at each other in relief.

We were traveling as fast as our boats could go in that situation and I believe the knockdown was caused by my changing course so fast and not the gust, although I'm sure it contributed. I also can't imaging another scenario in getting out of that situation. We were so close as we sometimes get while racing and there just was no choice other than what I did to miss him.

By the way, he went over also. Saw his keel on the surface.

Another note: Make sure you secure things in the cabin. We didn't - we learned! The cabin was trashed. Even the cushions where on the floor. No damage though.

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2006 : 09:38:16

First I hook the tack to the reefing horn. You can buy that piece of hardware at West or any such store. My reefing line for the first reef goes from a bowline secured to the boom into the clew cringle than through the boom back to the cockpit. I do the same for the second reef though I take that back from the clew cringle to a cleat on the boom.

I hope that answers your question.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2006 : 12:12:54

So, as I understand it, you release the main halyard and lower the sail 'til the 1st reef cringle touches the boom, close the main halyard clutch, go forward to the mast, secure the cringle to the horn, return to the cockpit, then pull in the clew reef line...and secure it where? I guess I'd have to watch you do the drill to fully understand.
But bottom line, to engage the tack cringle to the horn, you have to go forward to the mast. To me, an unnecessary step since the single line first reef can be done entirely from the cockpit as the boat is equipped from Catalina. Or am I missing something here?

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2006 : 14:14:34

In most cases we reef before we leave our slip so going forward isn't a problem. The trouble with single line reefing is you can't get enough tension on the tack to set a good reef. That is the reason for the reefing horn.

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2006 : 18:33:56

Agree about tack tension. That's why I took the reefing line out of the boom. Now I run it from the cringle near the end of the boom, up through the first reef cringle, down to a small block attached to the pigtail shackle, then forward along the port side of the boom through a couple of pad eyes to a small block on the mast at the tack, up through the tack cringle, down to a block at the base of the mast, back to the reef clutch through another block. Now the enroute reefing and unreefing drill is very simple, controlled entirely from the cockpit

Edited by - AADIVER on 11/16/2006 00:13:16

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