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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/04/2006 : 10:59:50

club race I have changed to a small photo with the full res available at the url link.

http://members.cox.net/ehmills/catalina/DSC_0502-8.JPG

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 10/04/2006 19:37:15

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 11:34:06

Time to reef, Frank?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 11:38:20

Looks like the cunningham needs to be tightened up a bit...

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 11:42:41

You will note that Gary doesn't even have his hand on the mainsheet and no one looks concerned. I am a bit confused by the lower luff of the main. I thought this might make a nice desktop for someone.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 13:43:37

That looks like a TON of fun!!! What degree of heel is that? I gotta try that tonight if the storms don't cancel our race! You're right Frank. No one on that boat gives any indication that they're washing the windows. They could be on a 5 degree heel for all the concern anyone is showing. Great stuff! Thanks for the pic.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 13:57:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ben
 What degree of heel is that?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Looks to be around 45 degrees.

Edited by - on

roktabija@yahoo.com
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 14:17:20

Me thinks your rail meat needs a good flogging.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 15:55:38

So...what was your speed at this moment?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 17:38:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by roktabija@yahoo.com
 Me thinks your rail meat needs a good flogging.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ya, that meat in blue needs to get on the rail! Great shot!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/04/2006 17:41:44

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2006 : 19:42:03

this is a great shot to look at closely, that is why I left the full res link above. This is the 2005 National Champion and his regular crew; the fellow in the black coat. I don't know the fellow in blue but from that angle he is a dead ringer for me. Note the tailer only has a short two wraps on the primary and is obviously in active trimming mode. Zoom in, you can see the heel in the compass hanging in the companionway. Look at his traveler.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 07:32:57

The traveler is definately non-standard. The sail number, 3179 (?) would indicate an early 80's vintage boat but, did he have to modify the stern pulpit to allow adding that track? Or did he add a new rail? the cross bar is missing.

Super picture. Reminds me of me only with less crew.

Edited by - on

cat1951
Admiral

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USA
636 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 07:53:03

Great pic, but if I show it to the admiral, I know I will have to splain to her that I don't plan on ever heeling that much!

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 07:59:32

"See Honey! That's what happens when you have some big guy loafing on the cabin roof!
Remind me to avoid that would you, I would hate to heel over that far honey, wouldn't you?
but it is nice to know that the boat can handle it, so we don't have to get tooo worried if we heel over, say 20degrees, what do you think, that's less than half the heel of that boat in the photo? Probably huh?"

Paul.

Edited by - on

Brian King
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 08:19:20

The first thing I did when I saw this pic was to add it to my Webshots screen saver pics. The second thing I did was to send it to my Admiral and say WOW, isn't that cool? She didn't reply. Thanks for the pic Frank.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 09:35:14

Notice that the rudder is essentially neutral, no weather helm inspite of the power. Look at his weather tell tales, they are streaming up, he is feathered and reducing heel and power by steering a touch high. At Cheney we are very carefull about our mast rake, with our high wind you do not want too much weather helm predialed in. Do you like his course board? I think it is a very good idea, it removes any doubt about what the race committee intends and gives you a place for your heading to be written next to a compass. He removed the old wire horse (traveler bar) and had Harken custom bend the traveler he installed. He cannot raise his tiller much anymore but the traveler works better than the old one. It was very difficult to install due to poor access.
He has tubes on his shrouds to help with tacking.
What else do others see?

Edited by - on

PamC
Navigator

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171 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 10:21:51

Thanks for the pic Frank! I love it. I was at the helm last Sunday holding the boat between 17 to 22 degrees and having the time of my life. All the more rewarding given that the season before I was hysterical when we heeled. Besides it was pretty fun to see Dave trying to maneuver in the cabin for a change.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 10:49:07

I was wondering if that was a course board or a polars schematic. I like the idea - also as a better place to put my hand-held GPS.

Would you say that the leech cord on the main is too tight? It looks like it is curled a little too much. I don't have one so I'm not sure.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 11:46:25

Not sure what size his jib is, but it looks to be 135 or better. So what interests me is his jib car placement. I'm guessing that he's kept them forward because he has a crew of four and doesn't need to worry too much about flattening that sail to keep on his feet.
I wonder too, if that factors into his mainsail luff being loose at the bottom.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 12:26:03

That is his 110 blade, full hoist and deck sweeper. Notice where the clew is relative to the lazy sheet going back around the shrouds. As for his leach string, a more qualified sailor needs to reply to that. Pam, Gary's boat seems very stable; locked in if you will. So next year go for 40! I find it interesting that Gary, the helmsman, doesn't even have his feet braced, mine would be against the far seat back.
Interesting backstay adjuster too.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 10/05/2006 12:27:26

roktabija@yahoo.com
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 15:52:32

Here's my guess. If he is a National Champion then he is a good sailor, and depending on when you snap the photo, a well sailed boat can look bad if the picture was taken during abnormal moment.

The picture leads you to believe it's a very heavy air day, but the boat and crew at the moment this photo was taken are not set up for that kind of heavy air, so my guess would be that either they just came out of a tack or mark rounding and might have turned a bit to much square to the wind, while they are in the process of trimming in, or they got hit by a big unexpected gust.

If it was a consistent heavy air day, they should be making 5+ knots upwind, but I see very little wake in the photo. You wouldn't expect the crew to sit in those positions in heavy air, and you sure wouldnt' expect the guy in blue to sit there at anytime on a upwind leg light or heavy. Both the main and headsail are not trimmed for optimum speed in those conditions. His helm is almost neutral, and a well trimmed boat should have a fair amount of weather helm in heavy air, especailly at that heel angle, which is not fast. Just looks to me like a momentary event.

I haven't raced in the last three years but prior to that spent 10 years racing my C25 in the ocean off Los Angeles where 20 knot winds were common in the late afternoon and sometimes much more. Nobody would purposely set their boat up to sail at that heel angle, it's just plain slow, not to mention you would be on the verge of a round up if a higher gust hits.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 17:21:15

This is the page of photos taken that race.
http://kbrs.org/0923pix.htm

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 21:03:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cat1951
 Great pic, but if I show it to the admiral, I know I will have to splain to her that I don't plan on ever heeling that much!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
When the Van Arsdales bought Passage, Amy-Jean asked if she heeled much... I wasn't sure what to say until her husband, Bill, explained to me that she wanted to bury the rail! So I said, yes, she can do that! (...even if it's slower.) Now you've provided photographic proof. I wish I had a shot of Passage at 6+ on a broad reach with spray off the bow and a rooster-tail off the stern. That was nirvana!

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2006 : 21:41:19

Looks to me like they are in the middle of a gear problem... like the boom gooseneck downhaul has come loose. Boom appears to be pulled down aft and the mainsail luff has gone slack. May be that the guy at the mast base is working on it.

Edited by - on

Dustysailz
1st Mate

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USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2006 : 08:31:15

What a great photo! Up until viewing it I would not ahve thought it possible to put the toe rail in the water. Gives me a great idea on how to wash those cabin windows. Looks like you guys were having fun!

Edited by - on

roktabija@yahoo.com
Deckhand

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20 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2006 : 13:00:18

Oh they go a lot farther than that! I don't want to even admit how many times my boat has heeled over so much the rudder comes out of the water and the boat rounds up into the wind. These boat can take a beating.

Edited by - on

djn
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1561 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2006 : 13:22:11

I have an old friend that has been sailing and when I bought my boat, I asked him if he'd knew anything about the c25 and (to my suprise) raced one for four years in the early eighties. On his last Port Huron to Mac race, he was knocked down in the streights. Most of the crew was asleep when it happened. He said a gust of wind hit the sails and put them flat on the water. He had his lifeline on and managed to stay in the boat as it came right up. One broken nose and a bunch of bruses. He said the boat faired better than the crew. So I guess they can take some abuse. Cheers.

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