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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Watch that lower rudder gudgeon.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/05/2006 : 22:12:06

A reprise of an earlier threads... and a caution.

I am putting the finishing touches on WOTAM before going back in the water. One of this year's upgrades is installing new rudder gudgeons.

When I started removing the lower gudgeon I found that the 1/4" machine screws were quite loose. This surprised me as the gudgeon had been rebedded and refastened only a couple years ago.

Based on my own experience and the other reports of failures in this area I'd recommend at a minimum enlarging the holes in older style gudgeons/ hull and refastening with 5/16" bolts... or upgrading to the newer style gudgeons, also with 5/16" bolts.

Note that the new style gudgeons from Catalina Direct have a lower 'deck height' and also extend further aft from the transom surface than the old style. This means they must be replaced as a pair, which also means you have to install an access port in the cockpit liner to put the upper gudgeon in with 5/16" bolts. (touch one thing and...)

WOTAM - '77 Catalina 25 SK/SR Sail Number 158

Edited by - ClamBeach on 10/05/2006 22:56:27

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2006 : 00:29:51

Good reminder. I will be checking the boat over when it comes out this next week for the season. What kind of backing do you have and did you use lock washers? Since plastic lumber I think I will use it for backing, at least for the lower gudgeon and it shouldn't allow the bolts to come loose as I used oak and I'll bet I have the same problem.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2006 : 09:30:18

"What kind of backing do you have and did you use lock washers?"

Backing = Stainless steel.
Lockwashers = Nylon locking nuts.

The above is the reason for my concern. I don't think the nuts backed off or compressed into the hull... I think the 1/4" fasteners stretched a bit under load. Which is why I'm suggesting upgrading the size of the bolts.

There may be a surprising bit of stress down on that lower gudgeon... and it's not the sort of thing you'd want to fail when you're off a lee shore.

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2006 : 18:48:49

As for the loose bolt, check the hull very carefully. I just replaced the lower gudgeon on my '82 WK two months ago, after repairing a crack in the hull at the gudgeon from rock damage. I had also rebedded the lower gudgeon a year ago and noticed the outer hull indented a bit when I tightend the bolts. When I cut out the damaged area this past summer, I noticed that the approx 1/4" of foam core between my inner and outer hulls had delaminated from both the hulls and had degraded from old moisture that had been trapped there. I removed the old core and built up the area with solid fiberglass, making sure I worked the resin into the delaminated areas that I didn't remove. Your "loose" bolts may be the core giving way under the compression of the bolts, it would take a huge load to stretch a 1/4" Stainless steel bolt, let alone three. If your boat is still on the hard, get back by the gudgeon and tap arround the plate and listen for tone changes. A delamination in the core should sound very dull and hollow, compared to an intact hull to core to hull bond.

As for the backing for the bolts, I agree with you on using SS. Mine had a 3/8" thick piece of bronze that appeared to come from the factory. I rebedded that also when I finished the glass work.

As for your gudgeons being a different configuration than the old style, I didn't find that the case, when I finally got the new, upgraded gudgeon w/bushing. It seemed to be the same configuration as my old one. I also ordered gudgeons from CD and had a trying experience. First they sent the wrong ones, four bolt, thinner,for a C-22. The mounting bolt kits they sent were also the wrong ones, as were pintles. After 45 minutes (no joke) on the phone with them they concluded that the part numbers "seemed" right but the wrong parts must have been packed by the shipping crew. The second shipment had the right pintles and gudgeon but only one was shipped, while the order said two, so another long call to CD. I gave up on trying to order the bolts and purchased them locally. So check and make sure they sent the right ones.

Good luck;

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2006 : 22:00:58

"...the outer hull indented a bit "

I inspected the hull under the lower gudgeon before installing... there was no compression or delamination evident. Stretching bolts or not, with the 5/16" fasteners it's a lot stronger now than it was before.

"[gudgeons] being a different configuration than the old style"

My early hull (#158) had gudgeons with a much larger base plate area than the replacement models offered by CD. The thru-bore length of the bushings where the pintles go through is also a lot deeper. Both those design elements are superior to the replacement part.

On the plus side, the replacement gudgeon is made of slightly heavier stainless plate, has better bracing and has a replacable nylon bushing. All in all, I thought twice before putting the new ones on.

I replaced the upper gudgeon today. Contrary to later boats, the gudgeon was through-bolted to the solid glass transom and not held in place by a bronze plate fiberglassed to the inside of the hull.

As the Catalina production runs evolved there were quite a number of subtle changes on these boats.

Edited by - on

Brian King
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2006 : 08:04:00

When I ordered the replacement gudgeons from CD I also ordered the fastner hardware. The bolts they sent with this "fastner kit" were undersized for the holes in the gudgeons. I think I ended up buying 5/16 bolts from a local source. Also, my '89 had the bronze backing plates.

Edited by - on

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.