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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Rudder adjustment

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/14/2006 : 14:06:31

Rudder adjustment to a ‘95 C250 WB
Having followed some of the discussions regarding adjustments made to 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation rudders I have a question which, perhaps for some of you is a no brainer, but that has puzzled me for some time...

Instead of reshaping/grinding the rudder frame itself, would it be possible to add an approx. 3/16” or even 1/4” spacer behind the uppermost gudgeon to achieve the same thing?

By doing this it may/will be necessary re-aline the bottom gudgeon to avoid friction of the rudder’s pintles. The alteration would place the rudder in a forward position close or equal to regrinding the rudder framework as discussed previously on this forum. Exact thickness of the spacers need to be determined.

Henk & Johanna
"Floating", a few off your "barnacles".
"Someday Lady" '95 C250WB #151 ('03 - 2016)
"Sea ya" 30ft Bayliner (04-2018 - 09-2018)
"Mariah" '96 C250WB #191 (05-2019 - 15-05-2023)
"Lady J" '00 C250WK #499 (05-2021 - 09-2022)

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 17:37:57

Henk... What you suggest ought to work fine and has been talked about but no one offered a report so I'm not sure it was ever done. The only rudder I think it would be an option for is the 2nd generation blade.

The 2nd beaching is probably easier to saw the frame and the rivet detent has to be dealt with anyway... it was a poor design effort that didn't prove out.

The 1st generation rudder isn't worth the effort and infact it was a balanced rudder anyway, just suffered inadequate lift.

Of course the 3rd is well balanced.

The shims would need to be angular as pintle alignment is fairly critical.

If tackling the project, I'd suggest examining the gudgeons to see if the originals were replaced. The originals on the '95 - '96 models had the bearing brazed to the mount whereas the replacements have a weld securing the bearing to the mount. If having the original brazed... they are subject to failing and should be replaced. It is easy to tell them apart, the weld is a very obvious rippled looking weld.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 04/14/2006 17:40:03

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 21:02:08

The first gen rudder is balanced???

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2006 : 21:41:10

I can't speak for sure about the 1st blade but the first beaching was.

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zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2006 : 00:56:56

Thanks very much for the explanation Arlyn.

But... it seems that if the method of adjusting the gudgeons with spacers works then why would anyone want to go through the trouble and all that work/expense of taking the rudder apart, do the grinding, take out, relocate and fix the ball stop (lack of knowing the right description) and put it all back together.

I cannot escape to wonder if there perhaps is more to it or if this is just a case of having perfect 20/20 hindsight?

Regardless I’m very impressed/pleased that there are so many people on this forum willing to openly share and show the many boat improvements for the benefit of all.

BTW One of the old gudgeons (top gudgeon) lost its brazed bearing and a new one was ordered & replaced with a welded bearing gudgeon. However, the new, Catalina supplied, gudgeon was slightly wider by about 3/16” giving me the idea that this could work the same way as modifying the rudder itself and eliminate a lot of work.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2006 : 07:10:53

Henk, Yep, I think there is more to it. The rudder head modification wasn't that hard unless the screws on the side plates were frozen. The strip can be cut off with a table or hack saw. An owner in New York sent his rudder head for me to perform the modification and it was obvious that it was a salt water sailed boat... the stainless screws had corroded into the aluminum frame and almost every one had to be drilled or driven out.

The rivet-detent lock down design was abandoned because of its own contributions to the problems, still required if shiming the gudgeons.

Also, for those with wheel steering, shiming the rudder head angle would alter the positioning of he rudder control arm entry. Moving the hinge point aft would have a limiting effect on rudder swing stops and rudder throw would be lost as well as possible alignment issues with the control cable.

Edited by - on

welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2006 : 10:26:25

All,
Check Catalina Direct for replacement gudgeons. I replace my lower gudgeon with their new ones. They have a plastic bushing which is replacable when it wears. I bought one extra bushing when I ordered the new gudgeon. They work great and make a nice tight fit - they bolt right to the existing backing plate with no mods needed. I am going to replace the upper one shortly as it has some noticable "play" when I compare it to the new one with the bushing.

Note: C25 gudgeons are the same ones used on the C250. When I ordered mine, I called Catalina and confirmed prior to ordering.

Edited by - welshoff on 04/15/2006 10:27:51

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1314 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2006 : 22:31:59

Thank you Arlyn... There’s always one more thing to think about. Since our boat is tiller equipped I'll most likely take the shim route complete with careful alignment of the gudgeons. Once installed it would be my pleasure to report results. Any suggestions of the criteria to be used?

Although we sail in salt water, the SS screws holding the rudder plates vibrate loose after some time when the 8 hp Honda outboard is used. Am planning to drill and replace the screws with bolts & nuts.

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welshoff
Captain

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USA
253 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2006 : 09:49:24

Henk,
FYI - My screws have a locknut on them after they come through the backing plate.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.