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 Allstate Insurance not good at Safe Harbor Marina
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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3463 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/06/2022 :  11:48:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So my Marina calls me up today and Says Allstate is no longer an acceptable insurance agency.... for them. YET Another trail of paperwork to chase using up my time instead of Sailing.....

Safe Harbor recently bought the marina and now stipulate minimums of $500,000 with 10,000 deductible liability plus value of boat and naming them as party also insured.

Lovely....

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 05/07/2022 04:46:09

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3932 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2022 :  14:47:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the club Ray. Safe Harbor took over my marina a few years ago. It was formally Brewers. Same requirements regarding insurance amounts. I have Progressive for the boat but I don't think that the carrier should matter. Interesting.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound



Edited by - islander on 05/06/2022 14:52:21
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/06/2022 :  16:49:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Last year my son kept our powerboat for one month at a Safe Harbor yard in CT and we had a devil of a time with the insurance. They demanded they be put on the policy as payee! I had my insurance agent contact them and after much back and forth we came to a mutual agreement. However, my insurance agent is telling all clients to avoid Safe Harbor facilities for summer, transient and winter.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
8891 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2022 :  19:23:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bigelowp

...after much back and forth we came to a mutual agreement. However, my insurance agent is telling all clients to avoid Safe Harbor facilities for summer, transient and winter.
...because the "mutual agreement" was your agent met their requirements. This is a coast-to-coast operation--you're not going to "negotiate" with them unless you're a Russian oligarch with a 250' "penis boat". When they bought Brewer's, they got a place here in Mystic--lots of concerns...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV,
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge (but still sailing when I can).
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 05/06/2022 :  19:37:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wonder if that means Allstate's financial stability is in question. Sears closed all their stores in this area. Maybe Allstate is also in trouble.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/06/2022 19:38:33
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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/07/2022 :  04:38:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like a typical gouging scheme to me...

That would be double billing.

You pay the slip fee which includes their insurance needs, and now you pay additionally to insure them. They have transferred their burden of liability cost to each individual.

I disliked the fact that Safe Harbor accepted my money and insurance for a years contract and then brings this issue up a month later. Gouging and bait and switch, that's textbook fraud.

Someone should sick their lawyers on them, while alerting the insurance commissioner.

I don't think I'll every get it out of my head that I'm carrying a 1/2 million dollar flyer to cover the possibility of two $8,000 sailboats bumping into each other

More like Snake in the Grass harbor.

Snake Harbor...




Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 05/07/2022 04:54:13
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3932 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2022 :  06:01:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Read the fine print on any agreement with any Marina and you will find that it is a one sided agreement put together by their lawyers. You cant sue them but they can sue you for any damages to thier docks or Marina property. Brewers Marina had the same requirement as to listing them on the policy.
quote:
Someone should sick their lawyers on them, while alerting the insurance commissioner.


Its their Marina, They arn't twisting your arm to stay there.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound



Edited by - islander on 05/07/2022 06:03:40
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bigelowp
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1679 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2022 :  08:34:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
1. Dave -- it was the Mystic outfit. Previous year no issues, last year tons of issues, this year no longer a customer.
2. Steve -- Allstate has been an independent company from Sears for decades. Regrettably Sears over the years sold off all their profitable entities. My guess is the marina had (or is having) dispute(s) with Allstate.
3. Scott -- it is becoming more and more so. Even my little yacht club now must provide written proof of insurance for all boats on moorings or the club's policy can be cancelled by the carrier.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Edited by - bigelowp on 05/07/2022 08:35:42
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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
8891 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2022 :  20:37:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Peter: You're doing business with Mystic marinas? I might be able to give you a better choice.

Yes, virtually all marinas (including my condo association with a dock) require insurance--one boat catching fire can take out many others. I have to provide my declaration to the marina where I store for the winter. But listing them on my policy is not something I've run into (yet). My bank "requires" to be listed on my flood insurance policy--they're not, but they seem to be satisfied that I have the insurance. (They're a lot bigger than Safe Harbor--I'm flying under the cloud layer.)

Safe Harbor is a national chain--I suspect their insurance requirements, including their relationship with Allstate, are universal among their properties. As I said, one boat fire... and the boats are "worth" a lot more these days. (Do you know what two Yamaha 350 outboards on the back of one boat cost (not including the boat)? Answer: roughly 20 C-25s.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV,
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge (but still sailing when I can).

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/07/2022 20:44:48
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bigelowp
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Response Posted - 05/08/2022 :  04:45:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dave: My son lives in Mystic and for the past few years he has kept/used our powerboat up there for half the season. This year as a new home owner I doubt he will have the time (or money) to do so, but next year . . . . .

Am familiar with the insurance requirements for marinas vs clubs. Unlike previous years Safe Harbor last year wanted all boats on my policy listed even though Limerick was not going to be at their facility and all people in my family listed as users. Even the gal at the front desk (who has to deal with customers) was shaking her head. My insurance agent intervened and got it to be just one boat and just one user.

Peter Bigelow
C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT
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glivs
Admiral

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811 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2022 :  05:12:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Safe Harbor is buying up marinas here on Lake Champlain of late, one near my mooring field 2-3 yrs ago and one on the Canadian border this spring. Of the hundreds of boats overwintered at the latter, the overwhelming majority are owned by Québécois and since the border was closed most of the past two years, the marina (and village) were economically devastated. I suspect the marina may have been sold for a song.

Gerry & Leslie; Malletts Bay, VT
"Great Escape" 1989 C-25 SR/WK #5972
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Davy J
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1508 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2022 :  11:18:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This thread made me think of where I am right now..........

We are currently out cruising, and don't have a home port right now.

However, we are currently docked in Key West Bight Marina. There are several multi-million dollar yachts docked around us......

The dockmaster never asked us once about insurance........?

Davy J


2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay
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redeye
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3463 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2022 :  18:58:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
<< Its their Marina, They arn't twisting your arm to stay there >>

They are twisting my arm... I signed a years contract and now they have changed the terms.


ANYHOO.. thanks for the recommendation for Progressive Insurance.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/08/2022 :  19:48:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My online web estimate for insurance with Progressive was $588 a year.

Again... Gouging.




Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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3932 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2022 :  05:08:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I dont know what difference is but I pay Progressive $378. Thats having Safe Harbor named as Additional intrest and the $500,000 Liability.
I do get a discount because I am a homeowner, never made a claim and pay in full. What that dicount is exactly I don't know.


Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound



Edited by - islander on 05/09/2022 05:10:54
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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/09/2022 :  05:32:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
<< I pay Progressive $378. >>

Thank you for the comp Scott. That sounds reasonable.


The website only offered $350,000 in liability for $588. It would not even offer $500,000 for me to review. I'm also a homeowner and I've never had a claim for the house or boat. But my home, car, and boat have always ( 45 years ) been with allstate.

I'm upset with Snake Harbor because I have just been though all this in late winter to get my ducks in order and now I'm essentially having to do an insurance audit during the best times of sailing.

Reasonable would have been for them to say this will be the requirements for the next contract.

But I guess if you are a 2.2 Billion dollar company you don't hafta be reasonable.

Much less considerate....

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 05/09/2022 05:36:41
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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/09/2022 :  11:50:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From my marina....

"SHM requires all members to carry Vessel Liability insurance, commonly know as Protection and Indemnity insurance ("P+I") in the amount of $500,000 and Hull Insurance in an amount not less than the fair market value of the vessel. The P+I insurance must have a deductible no greater than $10,000 and must name Sun Communities Inc., and it's affiliates and subsidiaries ( or Safe Harbor Marinias, LLC, SHM TRS, LLC, and their respective parents, affiliates, and subsidiaries) and Additional Insureds. These policies must specifically cover wreck removal and pollution liability as well coverage for all other perils."

"Adding SHM as Additional Insured protects SHM from claims against the vessel that do not involve the marina. For instance, if the vessel is involved in a collision resulting in bodily injury and SHM is named in a lawsuit, the vessel insurance would defend SHM as wall as the member. Also, the insurance company will notify all Additional Insureds if the policy is altered of cancelled."



I think if they want to be listed as a payee, then they need to be a payer....

They should be paying for half of my policy.

It is insuring them.


Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 05/09/2022 13:05:09
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/09/2022 :  15:41:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, All they asked me for was to have $500,000 liability and to have Safe Harbor as Additional Intrest. I called Progressive and they added that to my policy then I e-mailed the policy over to the Marina office. The girl said "perfect". Like I said this wasn't new to me because the previous owners (Brewers) had the same policy about having them named on the policy although I don't think they required the $500,000 minimum.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/10/2022 :  04:56:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All this for a Catalina 25 with a 4hp outboard engine on it. Probably one of the safest boat designs on the lake. I've never had a boat claim in my life with boats all around me my whole life making claims due in part to their or the marinas negligence.

Anyway waaa, waa, waaaa....
back to telling my story to the Insurance companies.

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel

Edited by - redeye on 05/10/2022 05:01:49
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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/11/2022 :  05:17:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
YES!!!

Great News I emailed all the details from the Marina to a local Nationwide Agent ( Randy Clevenger ) and they got back to me with a quote overnight for $315

SWEET!!!!!

Great Rate, Great Service... Thank You

And Thank y'all for listening......

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/11/2022 :  06:29:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh But wait,, they just got back to me and said due to two tickets on my driving record ( crossing a double white line to get in the HOV lane and being hit by another driver )

I now have a quote for #361 dollars...

That seems excessive to me and also a bait and switch...

well isn't that special...


Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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islander
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Response Posted - 05/11/2022 :  06:46:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But wait, There's no double white lines out on the water...

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/11/2022 :  07:37:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Now the nationwide agent is sending me comps she is getting from other carriers...

Safeco = $580
Progressive = $590


I guess I'll hafta move on to another boat, another body of water...

I feel this has become unreasonable for a 4 hp that goes a max of 7 mph on the water.

Talk about insurance fraud.....

Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
8891 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2022 :  08:13:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey--good idea! Next time I'm at a Toyota dealer, I'll have them get me prices for a comparable Ford a Chevy--maybe some brochures for them, too! One-stop shopping!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV,
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge (but still sailing when I can).
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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/11/2022 :  08:30:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
<< I'll have them get me prices >>

Something they did.... not at my request.


I finally called my Allstate Agent of the last 40 years and now ( although I advocate TRYING to keep everything in the open being best for everybody ) I'm finally not able to repeat the details..

it is an interesting ongoing saga...... more drama and intrigue than I had imagined.

May you live in interesting times.


Ray in Atlanta, Ga.
"Lee Key" '84 Catalina 25
Standard Rig / Fin Keel
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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
8891 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2022 :  08:26:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And the conspiracy theories begin...

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, ex-OUPV,
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge (but still sailing when I can).
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