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NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts
Initially Posted - 03/03/2021 :  10:20:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a catalina250.

When I tack the Genoa comes thru and then the bow keeps moving past the heading I want to stop on.

Any help would be appreciated. also it is a Wing keel which I think allows for slippage

Patrick
1998 Catalina 250WK
Ravaging
Albemarle Sound,NC

I spent most of my money on boats and beer, the rest I just wasted.

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 03/03/2021 :  11:38:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you sailing with both the jib and mainsail raised? Also, what size jib are you using?

A sailboat pivots on its keel. The keel is the sailboat's axis. Think of it as similar to the needle of a compass. The needle's axis is the little pin in it's center, upon which it rotates. Similarly, the sailboat's axis is it's keel, and, when a sailboat turns, it rotates on it's keel. The bow turns away from the wind, and the stern turns toward the wind.

When you're sailing on a tack, the wind pressure on the mainsail pushes the stern to leeward. The wind pressure on the jib pushes the bow to leeward. The keel provides lateral resistance. It converts the combined sideways pressures on the mainsail and jib into forward motion.

If you take the mainsail out of that equation, then, when you tack, you only have wind pressure on the jib, pushing the bow to leeward, without the mainsail to counteract it by pushing the stern to leeward. The result is that the bow keeps bearing away further to leeward. It sounds to me like you need to raise your mainsail, to help keep the bow pointed to windward after the tack.

It's possible to sail a boat on the jib alone, but only under certain conditions. First, the jib must be overlapping. Second, I'll have to guess that on a C250, it must be at least a 125% or larger jib. An overlapping jib extends aft of the boat's axis point (called it's "center of lateral resistance," or CLR). To the extent that the jib extends aft of the CLR, it serves the same purpose as the mainsail, by pushing the boat's stern to leeward, just like a mainsail, only not as forcefully. Third, when sailing on jib alone, you must not let your boat speed drop during the tack. When your speed drops, the keel and rudder become less efficient. The keel can't provide as much lateral resistance, and the rudder can't provide enough force to make the boat go where you wish. Thus, if your overlapping jib gets snagged on the rigging during the tack, and the boat loses too much speed, the boat might lose steerageway.

The problem you described could have other causes. For example, if the boat has weeds or something that got caught on the keel or rudder, that could also be the cause.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts
Response Posted - 03/03/2021 :  15:54:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

I tried to let the genoa luff until I can get the Heading stopped, then sheet the genoa in

This works to some extent but it is a wing keel which does not help.
1998 Catalina 250WK
Ravaging
Albemarle Sound,NC

I spent most of my money on boats and beer, the rest I just wasted.
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 03/03/2021 :  16:52:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Were you sailing with both the mainsail and jib, or with just the jib, Patrick?
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts
Response Posted - 03/03/2021 :  18:52:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

Were you sailing with both the mainsail and jib, or with just the jib, Patrick?


both sails, but the wind was light
1998 Catalina 250WK
Ravaging
Albemarle Sound,NC

I spent most of my money on boats and beer, the rest I just wasted.
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts
Response Posted - 03/04/2021 :  06:25:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NCBrew

both sails, but the wind was light

That could be the problem, too. Sailing in light air is really difficult. If you can't get up enough speed in light air, the keel and rudder don't work the way they're supposed to, and it's hard to make the boat go the way you want to. Try tacking in 8-10 kt winds and see if you have the same problem. If not, then the answer might be that there was just too little wind to work with.

I'm beginning to think we aren't going to be much help here. We can only guess at the cause of the problem, and we don't have enough information. I suggest you ask an experienced local sailor to sail with you in similar wind conditions. There's no substitute for first hand knowledge.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3992 Posts
Response Posted - 03/04/2021 :  07:10:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sailing in light air is really difficult
I agree. You have very little energy to use and by the time you complete the tack all of that energy is gone leaving you with out any forward momentum. Basically your just drifting at that point without any directional control. DITW.
Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound


Edited by - islander on 03/04/2021 07:15:47
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9013 Posts
Response Posted - 03/05/2021 :  10:09:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In light air, I suggest not trying to point too high coming out of the tack. Fall off a little from your intended course, ease the sheets a little, let the boat gain some speed (if you can call it that), and then start pointing up. But also keep in mind you cannot point as high in light air. 45 degrees off true wind, sheeted hard, sometimes just generates more side slip (from lack of speed), so your progress upwind is hampered. Go a little lower with all sheets eased a little, and your progress to your objective (VMG) should be better.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
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Dave Brown
Navigator

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USA
174 Posts
Response Posted - 03/15/2021 :  19:21:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ya to all the above, I have a 1999 # 411, WK . When you tack, That happens. The boat just keeps going. But try this a few times.
Boat speed, then release the sails when you tack, complete the tack. Take a heading, NOW start sheeting in on the new tack.
The wind speed will determine how long one wait’s to sheet in. Too soon, and the boat keeps going, to late, and the boat stops.

That’s my 2 cents
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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts
Response Posted - 03/15/2021 :  19:28:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In light air it is also a good idea to fall off a little BEFORE starting the tack. The added speed provides better rudder control, and can provide better momentum for getting through the eye and maintaining rudder control once the genoa moves over.
Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.